5.7x28 bolt action

Discuss the FN bolt action rifle lineup; the Patrol Bolt Rifle (PBR), Special Police Rifle (SPR), Tactical Sport Rifle (TSR), and Ballista.
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srt-4_jon
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by srt-4_jon » 06 Jan 2012, 06:15

what twist rate are you planning?

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 06 Jan 2012, 09:38

1 in 12 twist.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 06 Jan 2012, 19:59

Curious, why are you spending so much on a barrel blank? I can get top of the line fluted custom barrels(Lilja, Krieger, benchmark) for way less than that. Anyone can. And wow, lathe costs and blue printing is expensive. Smiths really do get a heckuva a markup. Nice to have 'buddy rates' for my smithing.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 06 Jan 2012, 20:22

Well, given that I am doing the work myself I would have to defend those "smiths that get a heckuva markup". I see few ethical people making a killing in this business that the very govenrment that requires their own lisence seems to be trying to regulate out of existance. Barrel blanks cost about $150 for a good stainless one. Should take about 8-10hrs to machine just the barrel. Given that I value my time at around $20hr that makes for a $350 barrel. Maybe more. Then there's the cost of my machines, the special chamber reamer and go-nogo gauges that will rarely get used other than this job. Those are about $300. So, I can see how this project can get expensive.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 06 Jan 2012, 22:14

I wasn't commenting it was wrong. Market is what it is. I was commenting on how surprised I was for how much they can get for their trade. Good for them. It still is a good margin. That is what you do in business, maximize margins. I am just glad I don't have to pay that! I need to get my buddy better christmas and birthday presents! :thumb:

My point is on your earlier break down you said $500 for the barrel. Didn't make sense. You are talking what you would charge. That makes sense.

So you get barrels for $150? Wow. I can get a 15% off the sticker (around $350 for the contoured and fluted custom barrel) with a vet discount from Lilja, but thats is about as good as it gets. What brand can you buy for $150? And are you doing more than threading, chambering, sizing and crowning them?
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 06 Jan 2012, 22:28

I am not sure you understand, I pay about $150 for a 1.25" diameter stainless barrel blank. No chamber, no threads, no contouring at all. Just a 30" long straight piece of stainless that has been gun drilled and rifled. That was the best price I could find. I would say if you can find a good price on one that is more finished, go for it! I would too. It would take me about 10hrs of machine time to chamber, profile, thread and any other cuts that need to be done.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 06 Jan 2012, 22:42

I understand what a barrel blank is.

You are buying a uncontoured barrel blank, contouring it, then doing the chambering and threading, crowning, sizing, etc. That uncountoured barrel costs $150 bucks. Ok, but who makes that barrel (just curious)? AND, why aren't you just getting it contoured from the barrel manufacturer? Saves you a ton of time.

You can get a barrel blank that is already contoured from just about any custom barrel shop. You can get one contoured for $300 from any of the top barrel manufacturers. Probably shoot tighter groups too. Contouring is a tricky thing with just a regular lathe to do it. The barrel guys have specialized lathes for that, and do it every day. That was what I was getting at. You may be good at doing it yourself though. Just wondering what I am missing, and if there is a cheaper way to do my builds. Make sense?
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 06 Jan 2012, 23:01

Ok, gotcha. I am at work now so my responses may be a bit short. I am planning on making a custom rifle from the ground up. Maybe making a form 1 suppressor for it as well. So turning a blank is really part of the plan. I suppose I could pay someone else to do the work, but why? I am a machinst by trade, I do home gunsmithing for fun. I expect to file for an FFL in the coming year so maybe this project will become a prototype of something bigger.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 07 Jan 2012, 01:20

After I got home I read our exchange on a desktop with more detail than my "smart" phone has. The blanks for my project are made by green mountain. The stainless 1/12 .224 blanks cost me about $150 if I recall. It's been over a year since I had a chance to look at it. I am back on the bandwagon since I am now looking to buy my first home with a two car garage ( shop space). I have ordered the reamer and gauges. I am looking forward to making some chips! I want to design my own rifle from the ground up, nothing ground breaking, old reliable tech, just for use with a 5.7 cartridge. My goal is to make it use FiveSeven pistol magazines that feed, fire and eject reliably. That said I hope it will also be accurate and with the suppressor be not very loud either.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 07 Jan 2012, 11:41

The reason most buy them contoured is because if it messes up the barrel harmonics and doesn't shoot tight, the barrel company will replace it. It is still a barrel blank, it's just that the contouring is already done. you still have to cut, size, chamber and thread.

I had a four contour Krieger and when one of my guns was built, it was grouping terribly. Checked the blueprint job, checked the bedding, even put it on another gun and it was clear the barrel was the issue. Krieger replaced it.

Have you used green mtn before? Never heard of them. That doesnt mean much though. I have only been in the custom world for a year or so. Before that all my knowledge was from hanging with benchrest shooters I know from my range. I will have to ask my bench rest and gunsmith buddies how they are.

Good luck. Looks like you have a great project. I never thought I would be a custom guy. Luckily I have a friend who is a smith, and all he requires me to do is buy the reamer and gauges and all the parts, and he puts together the rifle. Otherwise, this hobby would put me in the poor house for sure, because it is addicting, especially wildcatting.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by srt-4_jon » 07 Jan 2012, 12:54

Green Mtn makes some really decent 10/22 barrels. I havent heard about any of their other barrels but I am sure it will be just fine for this application. He isnt making a 1000yd comp rifle.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 07 Jan 2012, 13:44

No, but a round like this needs a decent barrel none the less to maximize its efficacy at range. Its a varmint round in this setup, so it better be tight shooting, otherwise, what's the point.

I love the idea of using FsN mags. Love to see the detachable box assembly he machines. That will be cool.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 07 Jan 2012, 14:00

Nope, I figure 200 yards it should be quite accurate enough. If not I need to rework my approach some.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 07 Jan 2012, 14:11

I would hope you could develop loads out of a bolt gun in this round to shoot twice that in varmint hunting. Again, good luck, really look forward to your results.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by 22king » 14 Jan 2012, 19:10

Do you guys have any pics of your bolt guns?

WA-Tom
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 14 Jan 2012, 23:04

No pics so far, it's still in the drawing board and planning stage. I don't even have any prints drawn up for it yet. My machine shop is not even yet functional.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 20 Jan 2014, 14:44

Still enjoying this little rifle, not getting a ton of range time, but enough to keep from going nuts.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 24 Aug 2016, 07:50

Hopefully this topic isn't completely forgotten about. Just curious if anyone here that has a bolt action 5.7 has had any issues with the 27 grain factory fn ammo? My 1:14 Shilleen barrel doesn't seem to like it, it keyholes every round.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 25 Aug 2016, 05:12

5.7 uses the same bullets as .223. So ANY .223/5.56 rifled barrel will work for it.

Keyholing is normally an issue with too heavy a bullet and a long twist like 1:14. NOT the other way around.

Who the hell thought 1:14 was a good twist rate for a .223 round that likes lighter bullets? What are the rest of the numbers on the barrel? Have you checked them? Have you slugged the barrel to make sure it's the correct caliber?

I know of the one prototype Savage bolt action in 5,7. It's in the private hands of the guy who developed it for Savage. Savage decided not to put the rifle into production. It is a 1:9.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 25 Aug 2016, 07:55

panzermk2 wrote:5.7 uses the same bullets as .223. So ANY .223/5.56 rifled barrel will work for it.

Keyholing is normally an issue with too heavy a bullet and a long twist like 1:14. NOT the other way around.

Who the hell thought 1:14 was a good twist rate for a .223 round that likes lighter bullets? What are the rest of the numbers on the barrel? Have you checked them? Have you slugged the barrel to make sure it's the correct caliber?

I know of the one prototype Savage bolt action in 5,7. It's in the private hands of the guy who developed it for Savage. Savage decided not to put the rifle into production. It is a 1:9.
Barrel is correct caliber, chamber is correct. The gun was not built to shoot 27 grain bullets, I just had some so shot them to see what it would do. They are relatively slow compared to what I load, 36 grain varmint grenades(5.5-5.7 grains of autocomp) which averaged 2320 FPS with 5.5 grains. I have not shot any of the 5.7 grain loads yet because it has been to miserable hot to do anything outside lately. No issues with gun as far as function. Gun info is

Remington 700SA (was brand new 243 that got stripped)
PTG solid body bolt with medium sako extractor
Shileen #5 contour 16 inch barrel
Magpul Hunter 700 Stock
Timney 510 trigger

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 29 Aug 2016, 05:26

So update on the 27 grain bullet problem. Turns out it might have been a range problem(my range looks like a jungle at the moment), there were a few blades of tall grass in front of my target and I believe the bullet was hitting those and starting to tumble. I could be wrong but a fast moving small bullet can be affected by stuff like that. I say that because if I moved higher on the target away from grass, the keyholes stopped. The 36 grain loads did produce a 1in group this weekend so I believe the gun is as good as it is going to get for what it is. Buddies gun built a little different but same basic setup was getting .75 groups with american eagle ammo(40grain). My handloads might need some adjusting or tweaking still.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 29 Aug 2016, 12:43

What was the total cost of this project?
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 29 Aug 2016, 16:21

Well if I had to pin a number to it lets see if I can add it up. I am just a simple Arkansas man so will take my shoes off real quick.

Donor gun= 280
Bolt= 250
Barrel= 470
Trigger= 125
Magazine(yeah you read correct, it is not a bobsled gun, it actually holds ammo and feeds them =-0) Trade for an Timney Arisaka 7.7 trigger so basically free but market value 85 bucks give or take.
Stock/Bottom metal= Freebie
Brake= recycle from old gun
Scope= 300
Rings and base= recycle from old stuff
Machining(headspacing etc..)= practice for me so practically free minus lathe and tool costs that I already owned
Total= 1425..... so not much different than a ps90 and ten times as cool to shoot and look at than a ps90 any day of the week. Unless you count the money I recoup from selling the old parts, brand new 243 barrel, bolt body, bdl stock and x mark trigger, had cheap 3-9x30 simmons scope and rings so maybe 150 bucks resale value for all on a good day? If I could figure out how to post a picture you would see a few of it.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 30 Aug 2016, 15:44

:thumb:
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 31 Aug 2016, 14:19

Image
Image
Image

Maybe these will work
Last edited by Rapier1772 on 31 Aug 2016, 21:48, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Nope but good enough to fix :D

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 02 Sep 2016, 07:23

Very cool!
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 02 Sep 2016, 10:09

Thanks, hope to get it dialed in really tight soon. Will keep updates coming in as well with handloads, I should be able to get pretty fast.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Oberta003 » 02 May 2017, 10:15

roostercogburn wrote:
29 Aug 2016, 16:21
Well if I had to pin a number to it lets see if I can add it up. I am just a simple Arkansas man so will take my shoes off real quick.

Donor gun= 280
Bolt= 250
Barrel= 470
Trigger= 125
Magazine(yeah you read correct, it is not a bobsled gun, it actually holds ammo and feeds them =-0) Trade for an Timney Arisaka 7.7 trigger so basically free but market value 85 bucks give or take.
Stock/Bottom metal= Freebie
Brake= recycle from old gun
Scope= 300
Rings and base= recycle from old stuff
Machining(headspacing etc..)= practice for me so practically free minus lathe and tool costs that I already owned
Total= 1425..... so not much different than a ps90 and ten times as cool to shoot and look at than a ps90 any day of the week. Unless you count the money I recoup from selling the old parts, brand new 243 barrel, bolt body, bdl stock and x mark trigger, had cheap 3-9x30 simmons scope and rings so maybe 150 bucks resale value for all on a good day? If I could figure out how to post a picture you would see a few of it.
What magazine did you use? Or where did you get it? I am building a rifle similar and really rather it be a repeater. Thank you

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 27 Jun 2017, 08:50

Oberta003 wrote:
02 May 2017, 10:15
roostercogburn wrote:
29 Aug 2016, 16:21
Well if I had to pin a number to it lets see if I can add it up. I am just a simple Arkansas man so will take my shoes off real quick.

Donor gun= 280
Bolt= 250
Barrel= 470
Trigger= 125
Magazine(yeah you read correct, it is not a bobsled gun, it actually holds ammo and feeds them =-0) Trade for an Timney Arisaka 7.7 trigger so basically free but market value 85 bucks give or take.
Stock/Bottom metal= Freebie
Brake= recycle from old gun
Scope= 300
Rings and base= recycle from old stuff
Machining(headspacing etc..)= practice for me so practically free minus lathe and tool costs that I already owned
Total= 1425..... so not much different than a ps90 and ten times as cool to shoot and look at than a ps90 any day of the week. Unless you count the money I recoup from selling the old parts, brand new 243 barrel, bolt body, bdl stock and x mark trigger, had cheap 3-9x30 simmons scope and rings so maybe 150 bucks resale value for all on a good day? If I could figure out how to post a picture you would see a few of it.
What magazine did you use? Or where did you get it? I am building a rifle similar and really rather it be a repeater. Thank you
I had help from a buddy to build a custom follower on a mill from aluminum. The magazine we used was a standard AI style mag with removable insert. I believe I got it from Midway. As far as the insert that is just a shoot from the hip and see what works with your rifle. It might take a couple of tries.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 11 Jul 2017, 06:18

So I think the magic weight for the bolt gun is 40 grain (used factory AE and had good results). Granted I only got 65 yards to plink with on the range it still holds a pretty good group. I averaged 2095 FPS with factory loads. Got some pull down 40 grainers coming from EA so may be able to load up some and get a few hundred more FPS.[img2=]Image[img2=]Image[/img2][/img2][/img2]
Last edited by roostercogburn on 16 Jul 2017, 13:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 12 Jul 2017, 11:33

Nice.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 24 Jul 2017, 08:28

panzermk2 wrote:
12 Jul 2017, 11:33
Nice.
What do you think the interest level would be for a mag insert that would let folks be able to have a repeater Rem700 action built 5.7? Just gauging interest before I jump off a cliff with this thing. I know a million different factors come into play but just out of curiosity for me really.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 25 Jul 2017, 08:57

No damn clue. But if you think you hear .223 is better than the 5.7 it will only get louder.

I just read a review of a Howa bolt action, but it was a short action. Howa, its a Mauser action, has a 1500 series short action rifle.
It comes in .223 which could be re chambered, they also have detachable magazine kits for the 1500.

Since the Rem is nothing more than a Mauser clone, Howa's are manufactured better in my opinion and cheaper. So it might be a better jumping off point.

http://www.firearmsnews.com/uncategoriz ... magazines/


https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/ho ... 500-hogue/
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by grimmond » 25 Jul 2017, 10:49

roostercogburn wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 08:28
panzermk2 wrote:
12 Jul 2017, 11:33
Nice.
What do you think the interest level would be for a mag insert that would let folks be able to have a repeater Rem700 action built 5.7? Just gauging interest before I jump off a cliff with this thing. I know a million different factors come into play but just out of curiosity for me really.
I'll take one if available.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 25 Jul 2017, 11:18

panzermk2 wrote:
25 Jul 2017, 08:57
No damn clue. But if you think you hear .223 is better than the 5.7 it will only get louder.

I just read a review of a Howa bolt action, but it was a short action. Howa, its a Mauser action, has a 1500 series short action rifle.
It comes in .223 which could be re chambered, they also have detachable magazine kits for the 1500.

Since the Rem is nothing more than a Mauser clone, Howa's are manufactured better in my opinion and cheaper. So it might be a better jumping off point.

http://www.firearmsnews.com/uncategoriz ... magazines/


https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/ho ... 500-hogue/
So I guess I should have been more specific. The starting magazine is one that would ideally fit any rifle that has aftermarket bottom metal that will accept an AI style magazine. The adapter in its current state only fits one type of magazine but could probably be adjusted for multiple brands. There are tons of manufactures that make those bottom metals and having some inlet work done on the stock is pretty common practice these days. I have a Howa 1500 in 308 that shoots .338 groups consistently so they are really close to Rem quality that I agree. Short action would be the only requirement I think to make it work. Got a buddy who has one (5.7) built on a model 7 SA and mine is built on a 700SA and they both work good in my opinion. Just ideas in my head I suppose for now.


Last edited by roostercogburn on 25 Jul 2017, 11:28, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 25 Jul 2017, 11:25

grimmond wrote:
25 Jul 2017, 10:49
roostercogburn wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 08:28
panzermk2 wrote:
12 Jul 2017, 11:33
Nice.
What do you think the interest level would be for a mag insert that would let folks be able to have a repeater Rem700 action built 5.7? Just gauging interest before I jump off a cliff with this thing. I know a million different factors come into play but just out of curiosity for me really.
I'll take one if available.

Trying to tie up some loose ends and see how feasible it would be to make more than one of. Currently I spend a few hours with some delrin, a dremel, drill press, and my sanding machine to get one made. I don't have a milling machine yet but that would make it so much easier....sooooooon

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 07 Jun 2018, 07:20

New paint and testing groups with a can. [img2=ImageImage][/img2]

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 07 Jun 2018, 07:35

60 yard groups with can. same poa/poi as uncanned. wish I could post a video for everyone to see it cycle.Image

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Rapier1772 » 07 Jun 2018, 10:43

That's a nice looking rifle, the fact that it shoots 5.7 makes it even better :D
How to post pics & videos: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6363
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 07 Jun 2018, 17:08

Rapier1772 wrote:
07 Jun 2018, 10:43
That's a nice looking rifle, the fact that it shoots 5.7 makes it even better :D
Thanks, it continues to impress me evertime I shoot it. Found a good load and can't seem to crank them out fast enough to cover a shooting session.

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