FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Discuss the FN Five-seveN line of pistols and accessories.

Moderator: blueorison

Locked
User avatar
jgreenberg01
Platinum Member
Posts: 3737
Joined: 17 Jul 2009, 14:32
custom title: FNP-45 Cylon
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by jgreenberg01 » 26 Mar 2011, 14:44

+1 to what Blue said... and when not out practicing, one might try using a spell checker. It only takes a moment and makes for a much better first-post impression. I'm just sayin'...

Oh, and welcome to the forum :D
0100001101101111011011010110010100100000011000010110111001100100001000000111010001100001011010110110010100100000011010010111010000101110

User avatar
Davidlee
Junior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 16:00
custom title: Code orange
Location: North Carolina

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Davidlee » 26 Mar 2011, 16:24

Blueorison you make a lot of sense and soon as my supply of SS197SR gets here I will do just that. I also like the idea of a five tap. :patriot:
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm. George Orwell

User avatar
flyingirish04
Gold Member
Posts: 4783
Joined: 25 Aug 2008, 21:42
custom title: Mtn Man in Flatland
Location: Great Plains, USA

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by flyingirish04 » 26 Mar 2011, 17:26

The way I was trained was to continue firing until the guy is completely incapacitated. If there is doubt, continue shooting. You don't see it in any movies, because quite frankly it looks brutal and inefficient, but it is the way it works in the real world. Keep shooting till you know the BG is down, forever.
Killed Two Stones with One Bird.

Mister Freeze
Senior Member
Posts: 1627
Joined: 25 Nov 2008, 11:11
custom title: 159.6
Location: Somewhere in Texas

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Mister Freeze » 26 Mar 2011, 18:27

It's really quite simple:

Energy calculations are the max POTENTIAL that COULD be delivered into a target. Smaller bullets CAN make up for mass with increased VELOCITY. 'Sweet Spots' require less damage to achieve a desired effect. SHOT PLACEMENT counts for more than bullet size or velocity.

Having said that, on any given day, in any firefight, I want MORE OPPORTUNITIES to PLACE MY SHOTS than the other guy. Thus, CAPACITY and SKILL are king and queen.

Example: crack shot with a TC vs a novice with something belt fed; who can afford to miss more?

User avatar
drinksabit
Junior Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 18 Jul 2010, 10:26
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by drinksabit » 26 Mar 2011, 18:47

flyingirish04 wrote:The way I was trained was to continue firing until the guy is completely incapacitated. If there is doubt, continue shooting. You don't see it in any movies, because quite frankly it looks brutal and inefficient, but it is the way it works in the real world. Keep shooting till you know the BG is down, forever.
Shoot until the target catches on fire or changes shape. I believe falling down crumpled up is changing shape.
"The OBAMA motto:
We've got what it takes, to take what you've got!

User avatar
fatherfoof
Senior Member
Posts: 3089
Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 00:56
Location: Lone Star State

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by fatherfoof » 26 Mar 2011, 22:53

Welcome to the forum. Blue, can you consolidate the weekly 400 identical questions into the wiki so we don't keep chasing our collective tails? The only variation is Fly has horns and a pitchfork along with a tail. (hahaha)
Please PM Me for LE/Military Access

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10666
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 26 Mar 2011, 23:01

Good idea, Father.

Though this won't stop the exact same question from being posted each week, we'll have somewhere to direct newbies. :)
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10666
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 27 Mar 2011, 00:19

w/index.php?title=Ammunition#Effectiven ... 28mm_Round" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Done.

And with gusto/opinion.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

ryker
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: 13 Apr 2009, 06:42

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by ryker » 27 Mar 2011, 05:53

1- if you could buy a 20rd, armor piercing, low recoil .50 then that's what I'd carry. Such platform doesn't exist.

2- level IIIa armor can be purchased used for less than 200.00

3- I'm lucky if backup is 5min away. I'm lucky if my portable radio works to ask for help. So having 61 rounds is a huge peace of mind. How fast does 12rd Glock magazines go in a battle?

4- there are countless case studies in which perps were shot numerous rounds with .357, .40, and .45 and was able to stay in the fight and live.

5- IMO FNH has done a terrible job at expelling the myths and showing some solid data. I'd love to see some slow motion clips of ballistic gel and other targets. Come on FnH take a look at how Ford is using YouTube.

Buffman
Silver Member
Posts: 2937
Joined: 12 Jan 2009, 22:48
Location: SW Michigan
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Buffman » 27 Mar 2011, 08:21

That's the only observation I can make. EA can develop all of these rounds that are not only safe to shoot in the 5.7 platform, but outperform all factory ammunition.. Why isn't FNH stepping up the R&D and offering a more potent SD and or Duty round. After all they keep touting the FSN as a home defense weapon in magazines, but we've never really seen much of anything from them in regards to how they came to such assertion (assuming one is not a forum member here). I don't see why they couldn't bump up the #s on the SS197SR..

ryker
Junior Member
Posts: 99
Joined: 13 Apr 2009, 06:42

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by ryker » 27 Mar 2011, 08:27

Seams like FnH would have the abilty to measure internal pressures of a
Ballistic gel block. Slow speed camera footage of the internal
Shockwaves.

As well as penetration of car doors, windows, walls, etc etc.

User avatar
jgreenberg01
Platinum Member
Posts: 3737
Joined: 17 Jul 2009, 14:32
custom title: FNP-45 Cylon
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by jgreenberg01 » 27 Mar 2011, 10:06

Buffman wrote:That's the only observation I can make. EA can develop all of these rounds that are not only safe to shoot in the 5.7 platform, but outperform all factory ammunition.. Why isn't FNH stepping up the R&D and offering a more potent SD and or Duty round. After all they keep touting the FSN as a home defense weapon in magazines, but we've never really seen much of anything from them in regards to how they came to such assertion (assuming one is not a forum member here). I don't see why they couldn't bump up the #s on the SS197SR..
That's a good question, maybe because:

A) with all of the anti-gunners fighting to get this evil gun banned - FNH doesn't want to press their luck?
B) people speak about the "anemic" ss197 round as if it really is anemic. Maybe compared to EA's offerings it is, however the round is certainly effective. I hate to use this as a metric, but look at the carnage that one (likely untrained) crazed, lunatic, jihadist was able to generate using (what we assume to be) ss197 rounds.

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, but it makes sense to me considering the current political environment...
Last edited by jgreenberg01 on 27 Mar 2011, 15:19, edited 1 time in total.
0100001101101111011011010110010100100000011000010110111001100100001000000111010001100001011010110110010100100000011010010111010000101110

User avatar
Davidlee
Junior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 16:00
custom title: Code orange
Location: North Carolina

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Davidlee » 27 Mar 2011, 11:01

My 1st shipment of EA ammo protecTOR II is on the way. will do my own testing and it is not as elaborate as some, but the best I can afford, its make up 1st layer doubled up blue jean, 1/2" wet news paper, bone in pork ribs (cheap stuff) followed up by 14" of more wet news paper. Will try to post results and pictures.
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm. George Orwell

User avatar
panzermk2
Forum Supporter
Posts: 11911
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 15:51
Location: Around here it's more like what can we shoot through next.
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by panzermk2 » 27 Mar 2011, 12:12

You guys know Brass Fetcher Ballistic labs is about to evaluate three of our rounds?


Included in this is high speed vids of S4M, Pro2 and T6. Since there are so many bar-stool commandos who accuse me of faking my tests I am paying them to perform these tests. I have given Brass Fetcher permission to make all their result public on their website also.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"

Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Image

Nickf150fx4
Junior Member
Posts: 97
Joined: 12 Feb 2011, 01:14

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Nickf150fx4 » 27 Mar 2011, 13:26

Awesome news about the testing!!! I would love to see some high speed video of T-6 or any of your ammo for that matter

Buffman
Silver Member
Posts: 2937
Joined: 12 Jan 2009, 22:48
Location: SW Michigan
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Buffman » 27 Mar 2011, 14:21

jgreenberg01 wrote:
Buffman wrote:That's the only observation I can make. EA can develop all of these rounds that are not only safe to shoot in the 5.7 platform, but outperform all factory ammunition.. Why isn't FNH stepping up the R&D and offering a more potent SD and or Duty round. After all they keep touting the FSN as a home defense weapon in magazines, but we've never really seen much of anything from them in regards to how they came to such assertion (assuming one is not a forum member here). I don't see why they couldn't bump up the #s on the SS197SR..
That's a good question, maybe because:

A) with all of the anti-gunners fighting to get this evil gun banned - FNH doesn't want to press their luck?
B) people speak about the "anemic" ss197 round as if it was really is anemic. Maybe compared to EA's offerings it is, however the round is certainly effective. I hate to use this as a metric, but look at the carnage that one (likely untrained) crazed, lunatic, jihadist was able to generate using (what we assume to be) ss197 rounds.

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, but it makes sense to me considering the current political environment...
A and B I agree on. I'm certainly not discounting the SS197SR, but it seems many do. It's just odd, that anyone who's intelligent knows the 5.7 is no more a cop killer than a 9mm,etc tc. Why FNH would have such a platform, then not try to get more out of it..

User avatar
Davidlee
Junior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 16:00
custom title: Code orange
Location: North Carolina

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Davidlee » 28 Mar 2011, 07:38

I believe what your saying panzermk2 or I personally wouldn't order your ammo, I just like to diddle around so I can get to peel the paper and measure the depth and see the bones fragmented, hands on stuff like that helps me to feel like I'm doing something productive. In fact fixin to order some more EA ammo right now. Mindset, Practice, confidence in self, equipment, and ammo that is the real stopping power.
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm. George Orwell

User avatar
Ospy
Junior Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 07:42
custom title: Brian
Location: Tacoma Washington

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Ospy » 31 Mar 2011, 00:40

I wanted to say thank you for all the information you've all provided on this topic. I am not new to forums. I've belonged to Hummer H1 forums for years and I am very familiar with the format. All forums are basically the same. Having said that, yes, I should have searched out the information before I brought it up. Sorry for making you all rehash this over again. Still, it was fun. Truthfully though, I am new to this forum and it was just my way of walking into the party already in progress and saying "hi" without knowing what was already talked about before I arrived. You guys did a great job of dispelling the stopping power myth.

2ndAMVa
Member
Posts: 266
Joined: 17 Nov 2009, 16:41
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by 2ndAMVa » 31 Mar 2011, 20:19

To the original poster...Mozambique Drill!
The FN 5.7 is ideal for doing the Mozambique Drill.

User avatar
drinksabit
Junior Member
Posts: 116
Joined: 18 Jul 2010, 10:26
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by drinksabit » 31 Mar 2011, 20:29

2ndAMVa wrote:To the original poster...Mozambique Drill!
The FN 5.7 is ideal for doing the Mozambique Drill.
+1
"The OBAMA motto:
We've got what it takes, to take what you've got!

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10666
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 31 Mar 2011, 21:41

From 20 feet you can triple tap into someone's head.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

Robar
Junior Member
Posts: 188
Joined: 13 Sep 2010, 04:25

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Robar » 01 Apr 2011, 01:45

blueorison wrote:From 20 feet you can triple tap into someone's head.
That should do it.

grew
Junior Member
Posts: 39
Joined: 25 Feb 2011, 12:18

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by grew » 01 Apr 2011, 11:12

Time for my rant. I went to the public range today because my Private club wont' let me shoot Five Seven indoors. Had a blast shooting my PS90 and Five Seven and at the end when I was packing up this guy and his wife come over to me and he says "Is that a PS90 I saw you shooting?" So of course I get mildly excited as they are rare in The Socialist Republic of Massachusetts. As soon as I am about to start telling him about it he follows up with "too bad the ammo has no stopping power" so I calmly take a deep breath and explain to him that there are non-lame rounds made by a certain manufacturer in Illinois. He basically stars going off about bullet weight being the be all end all of ballistics and then says the most ridiculous line. "I train in only one system and I train hard". By then I took an even bigger breath, and said "I shoot for fun and there is nothing more fun than the five seven platform in my opinion". I was so pissed but didn't want to start in on him about it. Not more than 2 minutes earlier we were doing a timed firing contest with 50 foot 22 rifle targets (A32) at 40 feet and I had 6 bullseyes in just under 3 seconds. I am by no means a good shooter and only recently got into firearms but I can't think of another weapon I could do that with.....

anyway I have learned to just listen to the following flowchart when dealing with these people
Image

Valorius
Banned
Posts: 615
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 17:32
custom title: 5.7 proponent

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Valorius » 01 Apr 2011, 11:17

There are some extremely devastating rounds for the Five Seven. Anyone that says they're isn't is either ill informed, or has an agenda.

A 40gr V-max at 2000fps is going to light a person up bad, and that's just the basic round.

User avatar
Ulysses38
Junior Member
Posts: 8
Joined: 04 Feb 2011, 12:45
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Ulysses38 » 01 Apr 2011, 12:54

Nice flowchart :thumb:
Sine periculo frigit lusus

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10666
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 01 Apr 2011, 13:46

Grew, you are right on the money.

For those who are close-minded and do not wish to be educated, just smile, and walk away.

It is not worth it.

Trust me. I'm on the range at least once a week.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

User avatar
Davidlee
Junior Member
Posts: 112
Joined: 21 Feb 2011, 16:00
custom title: Code orange
Location: North Carolina

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Davidlee » 01 Apr 2011, 14:09

I've lived for a while and wish I'd had this chart 30 years ago. Good deal.
We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence upon those who would do us harm. George Orwell

User avatar
fatherfoof
Senior Member
Posts: 3089
Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 00:56
Location: Lone Star State

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by fatherfoof » 01 Apr 2011, 21:12

1. Turn on the lights.
2. When they see what I look like before fully awake, they flee in terror for having met the creature from the dark lagoon.
3. If I am awake, I'm uglier.
Please PM Me for LE/Military Access

User avatar
Ospy
Junior Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 07:42
custom title: Brian
Location: Tacoma Washington

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Ospy » 01 Apr 2011, 22:28

fatherfoof wrote:1. Turn on the lights.
2. When they see what I look like before fully awake, they flee in terror for having met the creature from the dark lagoon.
3. If I am awake, I'm uglier.
Nice. Me, I inflate my lungs to make myself appear larger. :D

retirednak
Junior Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 04:16
Location: Knik,Alaska

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by retirednak » 02 Apr 2011, 04:47

Some asked about stopping power. Last winter, a 1200 pound moose cow was hit by a car,she was still standing up but had a broken leg. No way would she survive. State Troopers or Fish & Feather usually put the moose down. The Troopers were going to be busy for the next couple hrs,I couldn't see the moose suffering that long. I was able to drop the moose with one shot and fired a second shot once down to make sure she was down for good. I was surprised the moose went down on the first shot and I'm pretty sure she was dead before firing the second round.

I now feel comfortable enough to carry my Five Seven full time.

User avatar
Ospy
Junior Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 07:42
custom title: Brian
Location: Tacoma Washington

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Ospy » 02 Apr 2011, 07:03

retirednak wrote:Some asked about stopping power. Last winter, a 1200 pound moose cow was hit by a car,she was still standing up but had a broken leg. No way would she survive. State Troopers or Fish & Feather usually put the moose down. The Troopers were going to be busy for the next couple hrs,I couldn't see the moose suffering that long. I was able to drop the moose with one shot and fired a second shot once down to make sure she was down for good. I was surprised the moose went down on the first shot and I'm pretty sure she was dead before firing the second round.

I now feel comfortable enough to carry my Five Seven full time.
I don't doubt, but it IS a little unbelievable. Wow! I almost need to see it

retirednak
Junior Member
Posts: 2
Joined: 02 Apr 2011, 04:16
Location: Knik,Alaska

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by retirednak » 02 Apr 2011, 20:11

Since the cow had been hit by the car,she was far from healthy to begin with. A shot to the head shouldn't be hard to believe.

Valorius
Banned
Posts: 615
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 17:32
custom title: 5.7 proponent

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Valorius » 03 Apr 2011, 12:42

A shot to the head on a moose killing it instantly should be totally believable. The 5.7 is afterall known for tremendous penetration of hard barriers (like a moose skull)

User avatar
flyingirish04
Gold Member
Posts: 4783
Joined: 25 Aug 2008, 21:42
custom title: Mtn Man in Flatland
Location: Great Plains, USA

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by flyingirish04 » 03 Apr 2011, 20:49

Especially if the trooper was carrying ss190.
Killed Two Stones with One Bird.

ShockedNKansas
Senior Member
Posts: 992
Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 20:30
custom title: G0 SH0X

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by ShockedNKansas » 06 Apr 2011, 10:39

flyingirish04 wrote:Especially if the trooper was carrying ss190.
Retirednak said nothing about being a trooper. In fact, his following quote kind of implies he's not:
retirednak wrote:State Troopers or Fish & Feather usually put the moose down. The Troopers were going to be busy for the next couple hrs,I couldn't see the moose suffering that long. I was able to drop the moose with one shot...
I would ASSume he does not carry ss190 and more likely carries 195 or 197 unless he has secured la prima from EA.

ShockedNKansas
Senior Member
Posts: 992
Joined: 10 Feb 2011, 20:30
custom title: G0 SH0X

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by ShockedNKansas » 06 Apr 2011, 10:52

grew wrote:I was so pissed but didn't want to start in on him about it.
grew, you shouldn't let things like that piss you off. Your anger points to a possible insecurity you have about the round. If you know you are right, then you should be laughing at his ignorance. No need to offer the excuse that you just "shoot for fun" to try and placate him. Be strong and confident and tell him it is a devastating round and he should spend more time doing research before he tries to debate the issue.

If you still feel intimidated by such conversations, go ahead and pick up a .45 and now you own big caliber and small caliber and you can tell the next guy, "hey, I own a .45 but I choose to carry the 5.7". :thumb:

Valorius
Banned
Posts: 615
Joined: 02 Apr 2010, 17:32
custom title: 5.7 proponent

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Valorius » 06 Apr 2011, 13:34

Just remember Five Seven guys....

Image

grew
Junior Member
Posts: 39
Joined: 25 Feb 2011, 12:18

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by grew » 06 Apr 2011, 15:25

ShockedNKansas wrote:
grew wrote:I was so pissed but didn't want to start in on him about it.
grew, you shouldn't let things like that piss you off. Your anger points to a possible insecurity you have about the round. If you know you are right, then you should be laughing at his ignorance. No need to offer the excuse that you just "shoot for fun" to try and placate him. Be strong and confident and tell him it is a devastating round and he should spend more time doing research before he tries to debate the issue.

If you still feel intimidated by such conversations, go ahead and pick up a .45 and now you own big caliber and small caliber and you can tell the next guy, "hey, I own a .45 but I choose to carry the 5.7". :thumb:
I wasn't really pissed at him I was pissed about the fact I thought i was going to be talking to someone who really enjoyed talking about guns and instead ended up with a conversation about "stopping power". As for shooting for fun it wasn't really an excuse but the truth. I am certainly not going to be the one leading the pack when the zombie apocalypse happens. I'll just be the guy with all the guns and ammo. I don't pretend to be in the military as there are better men than I serving/have served our country that chose to do that. Shooting is a fun hobby and stress reliever from my day job.

Basically I over exaggerated my responses a tad bit (but isn't that what you do on the internet?)

Adjuster
Junior Member
Posts: 53
Joined: 10 Apr 2011, 17:47

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Adjuster » 10 Apr 2011, 18:24

I'm brand new here, but am also tired of the stopping power debate.

It is a relentless bovine scatoria spewing diatribe that makes the owners of .45's happy to be the big dogs in the debate.

What I find amusing is often the guys who say it all falls to caliber and bullet weight, are often the ones with poor shot groups, and really need to train the most to actually use what they have.

I own a few 9mm pistols, and even a carbine, and especially on the carbine, I get the "stopping power" debate nearly every time I show up at the range with that weapon.

The 5.7 round is/was designed to replace and upgrade the 9x19mm round that has proven leathal for tens of thousands. The reality is, the 5.7 round improves on the positive aspects of the 9x19mm design, and has no downside that I can see.

As mentioned by another here, If I wanted to carry a .45, I have one, and could choose it easy. But I like the 9mm or now the FN5.7.

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10666
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 10 Apr 2011, 23:16

Adjuster wrote: What I find amusing is often the guys who say it all falls to caliber and bullet weight, are often the ones with poor shot groups, and really need to train the most to actually use what they have.
Welcome to the forum! You've already made a good impression, at least on me.

Check out the search function (reports of its existence were not highly exaggerated) :p and forum wiki.

If you need any guidance or assistance, feel free to PM me and I'll send you confetti. I mean, a reply. :thumb:
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

EARS
Senior Member
Posts: 3370
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 09:43
Location: Rochester New York
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by EARS » 12 Apr 2011, 05:25

I've had several people question the 5.7 round and why I carry the USG as my main weapon of choice for work and personal protection. I don't agree with them. I give them some of the facts behind the EA ammo and the standard factory ammo. If that doesn't change their opinion, I just ask them to step down to the target line. We'll see if this ammo is good or so non-effective. So far, not one taker. They also don't continue to argue.

maxbid
Junior Member
Posts: 12
Joined: 25 Jan 2011, 09:39
Location: Ruidoso, NM

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by maxbid » 12 Apr 2011, 09:31

I agree whole-heartedly about stopping power is all about shot placement and not the caliber.
Point being that Grizzly bears have been killed with a .22 lr and a .308 did not stop drugged taliban.

So, I like the point made about being able to hit your target when in a situation where your adrenalin is pumping and how accurate you can shoot will matter. That is why my night stand gun is not my Sig p220 8 shot .45acp but my Glock 17 with it's 19 round mag.

I just purchased a FnS this past weekend and have a 30 round (20 + mag extension) in it. I've put my extra M6 laser/light on it and it will now be my night stand gun. I know that I'm going to miss hitting the BG multiple times and want as many rounds as I can get.

This always reminds me of the true story of Officer Ross Jessop stopping a drunk driver. It's all captured on his patrol car's dash cam. The driver pulls out a .41mag and the first pull of the trigger you can hear it go "click" and followup trigger pull is the very loud sound of a .41 mag going off in the officers face. Officer Jessop says "Oh Sh*t" and unloads his Glock 22 (.40 S&W with 14 round mag) into the fleeing BG in his truck.
Guess how many rounds actually hit the truck?

Here's a link to the dash cam video:
http://helenair.com/news/article_2123a6 ... mode=video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a link to the story:
http://helenair.com/news/article_2123a6 ... 002e0.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

User avatar
Ospy
Junior Member
Posts: 127
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 07:42
custom title: Brian
Location: Tacoma Washington

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Ospy » 12 Apr 2011, 09:40

Darn. And my bedside gun IS my Sig P220. :)
Perhaps I should load up a second magazine. Or, I suppose I could just throw my FsN in the nightstand. So many choices. Either way, BG Beware!
A liberal lady friend once argued that a lot of gun owners that are victims of a crime end up getting killed with their own weapons. That's absurd! If someone is going to kill me with my own gun, they're going to have to beat me to death with it, because it's going to be empty.

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10666
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 12 Apr 2011, 18:05

All it takes is practice and a bit of skill, and you can unload a full 20 rounds of 5.7x28mm into any bad guy's A-zone COM measuring 9x14 in his chest from 20 feet and under.

I always hear people talk about what gear what gun what caliber.

It's all pointless. Speaking about it out loud online and to themselves is their only empty reassurance. When the time comes, they are SOL and will be killed.

Take our members such as DW (SWE) and B. (CencalSplicer). They went out and signed up for Frontsite classes. This is a very reputable academy that I myself consider top of the list to enter. No, a Magpul Carbine class isn't on the top, because it's not very applicable, unless you think you can carry your carbine around and are MIL/have access to land and hunt/LE (I never think I know enough, and would still take the opportunity any day to learn more). Even then they do not have it on body.

There is what some think is "cool" etc. and accepted in the "firearms community". I wonder how many of these people in the "community" should follow our fellow friends, DW, B, and others like Ryker. Perhaps much too many. Initiative.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

Bones
Senior Member
Posts: 611
Joined: 16 Sep 2010, 15:11
custom title: Bones
Location: Newport News, VA

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Bones » 12 Apr 2011, 18:08

I carry an AT-4 between my front seats :p

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10666
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 12 Apr 2011, 18:43

I actually stopped and pondered the possibility of this, but only because you're Bones :evil:
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

User avatar
jgreenberg01
Platinum Member
Posts: 3737
Joined: 17 Jul 2009, 14:32
custom title: FNP-45 Cylon
Location: Palm Coast, FL
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by jgreenberg01 » 12 Apr 2011, 19:21

Bones wrote:I carry an AT-4 between my front seats :p
I actually have one...

Image
0100001101101111011011010110010100100000011000010110111001100100001000000111010001100001011010110110010100100000011010010111010000101110

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10666
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 12 Apr 2011, 19:59

Image

Did you take the barcode off of your FsN, yet? :lmao:

Screw the AT4 I'll take the shooter.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

User avatar
Rapier1772
Global Moderator
Posts: 12790
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 09:00
Location: Benton City, WA

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Rapier1772 » 12 Apr 2011, 21:01

blueorison wrote:
jgreenberg01 wrote:
Bones wrote:I carry an AT-4 between my front seats :p
I actually have one...
Did you take the barcode off of your FsN, yet? :lmao:
AT-4 still has the barcode on it
How to post pics & videos: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6363
Contrary to popular belief, you CAN fix stupid - it's just illegal.

User avatar
f3rr37
Site Admin
Posts: 14670
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:09

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by f3rr37 » 12 Apr 2011, 22:18

I think we've beaten the dead horse enough here, and we're getting off topic now.

Topic closed.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 20 guests