5.7x28 bolt action

Discuss the FN bolt action rifle lineup; the Patrol Bolt Rifle (PBR), Special Police Rifle (SPR), Tactical Sport Rifle (TSR), and Ballista.
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turbobrick
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5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 01 Nov 2008, 19:56

We all have seen that FN announced they would bring out a bolt rifle in the 5.7x28 chambering. Its been over two years since they announced the rifle, I wonder if you all think it will ever come.

Now, Brownells is offering a Shilen barrel for the Remington 700 action. I am a big fan of the 700, and would love to have one in 5.7. However, I don't know enough about custom rifle making to know what I don't know. From my research, 17 Fireball is the closest to 5.7 that the 700 is currently chambered in. The Fireball has a very similar overall length (about 6mm longer), but is about 1.6mm larger at the base. Is re-working a bolt for a new chambering something that is easily and commonly done? If so, roughly what kind of cost do you think would one be looking at?

The cheapest 700 in 17 Fireball I can find is in the $450 range. So add the $260 barrel, bolt work, barrel fitting/chambering, etc, and this turns into a project that could cost more than even FN's elevated pricing. If FN is really going to bring it out, I would rather pay a little more for an off the shelf solution. Thanks for your opinions.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Esteves » 01 Nov 2008, 20:41

Try Midway for the bolt http://www.midwayusa.com/esearch.exe/se ... l_products" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd be more worried about a workable magazine, or winding up with a single-shot bolt gun.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by ArtosDracon » 02 Nov 2008, 02:56

From everyone I've talked to a workable magazine or magazine adapter does not exist as of yet so your nicely converted rem.700 will be single shot only and for 2-3x the price of a TC contender or Encore.

As for the FNH version, I'll believe it's being released when me shite turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbert.

The day that happens though, I better have a lot of money set aside as I'll have a lot of commitments.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by jmz5 » 02 Nov 2008, 05:57

It will come, eventually.
كاف

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 02 Nov 2008, 13:34

Well hell, I didn't see the bolt there. That looks like my biggest concern isn't really an issue after all. So any short action plus the barrel and bolt, plus my gunsmith equals a functional 5.7x28 bolt action? If so, I think I'll dive in and get it built. I think I can work out the magazine thing with a little work.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by ArtosDracon » 02 Nov 2008, 22:38

Let us know if you do. A custom follower wouldn't be that hard to fab up. You'll want to get the rest assembled and get a mag of something that is as physically close to the 5.7 as possible, primarily in case width, take the factory follower, fill it with epoxy then use a dremel or small grinder to re-shape it as necessary, and go from there.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by User42 » 03 Nov 2008, 18:43

My point of view,

Why not just get a .223? Same projectile, more powder. I understand the purpose of the 5.7x28 as a PDW and pistol round, but if you are going with bolt action, why bother?

If you really want to get creative get a license to make a full auto Five Seven. Then find out how many 30 round mags it takes before the plastic bursts into flames. Oh yea, and don't forget to post it on youtube! :lmao:

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Esteves » 03 Nov 2008, 19:38

Sometimes less is more.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by ArtosDracon » 03 Nov 2008, 23:02

Do I smell a Troll?

Either way, if you don't believe in doing things just because you can, you're only going to enjoy about half of what firearms have to offer.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by f3rr37 » 04 Nov 2008, 11:52

Because its nice to go to the range and only have to worry about bringing the same type of ammo for pistol, PDW, and rifle?

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 04 Nov 2008, 21:52

User42 wrote:My point of view,

Why not just get a .223? Same projectile, more powder. I understand the purpose of the 5.7x28 as a PDW and pistol round, but if you are going with bolt action, why bother?

If you really want to get creative get a license to make a full auto Five Seven. Then find out how many 30 round mags it takes before the plastic bursts into flames. Oh yea, and don't forget to post it on youtube! :lmao:
I have several .223 rifles, and I just don't need another one, especially a bolt action. My collection is pretty well balanced, and I would like to get some more interesting items now that the basics are taken care of. I enjoy the idea of sharing a round in rifles and pistols. Since I sold my 17 HMR, I don't have a good varmit bolt action. So, if somebody is making barrels and bolts why not make a rifle in one of my favorite pistol cartridges? Think of the velocity possibilities with that 24" barrel and some well researched handloads. The search is on for a cheap short action 700. I'll keep you updated, thanks for all the help.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 04 Nov 2008, 21:54

ArtosDracon wrote:Let us know if you do. A custom follower wouldn't be that hard to fab up. You'll want to get the rest assembled and get a mag of something that is as physically close to the 5.7 as possible, primarily in case width, take the factory follower, fill it with epoxy then use a dremel or small grinder to re-shape it as necessary, and go from there.
The 17 Fireball is really close in length, the guys at Sportsmans Warehouse said I could try my 5.7 rounds in their 700 in 17 for fit. We'll see how it goes.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by ArtosDracon » 04 Nov 2008, 22:36

17 fireball is a necked down .221 which is a shortened .222 which is what the .223 is based on. Length is close but diameter of the case is quite different, which could cause feeding problems. Length isn't as important as diameter, if the diameter is off the bullet isn't going to center properly at the top of the magazine and it won't feed right. IMHO at least.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 04 Nov 2008, 22:44

Well I was thinking that the magazine block for the 17 fireball would be a good start to making it feed well, another follower might be a better fit diameter wise if cut down to the 17 block.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by User42 » 06 Nov 2008, 00:04

No troll, that was a serious answer. I thought the purpose of the 5.7x28 round was to create pistol ammunition with the characteristics of a rifle round, for use in PDW and pistol platforms. That it does well, but if you are going to use a rifle, why bother? I would just as soon use a cheaper, more common, and more powerful rifle round to do the job. I see the point of a 5.7 AR upper for those that already have an AR lower, and hell I would love to see the video if you were to make a miniature belt fed 5.7 SAW variant or Gatling gun or something (they have done it with .22lr).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't do it. I'm just saying for any practical purpose I don't think its worth it. It's like hearing someone say they are going to drop a 4 cylinder VTEC engine in an older Dodge Charger. The VTEC works great in the cars its made for, but the Charger would benefit from the much larger V8 engine than it was made for. The conversion required to under power it seems a waste.

Ok you have me on that last point
f3rr37 wrote:Because its nice to go to the range and only have to worry about bringing the same type of ammo for pistol, PDW, and rifle?
I admit I see things a bit differently, I don't want a PS90 because it would eat up all my best pistol ammo! Ok I admit it, it would eat up the Five Seven ammo, but I still want a PS90. :drool:

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by ArtosDracon » 06 Nov 2008, 09:50

I do see your point but, try not to think of it as competition for a riffle round in a riffle, try and remember that the round was designed for a pistol/pdw combo. Think 9m riffle compared to 5.7 riffle to understand the appeal a little better.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 23 Nov 2008, 23:05

OK, I talked to my gunsmith, and I think I've got it figured out. He dislikes working those custom bolts into a rifle when he can more simply machine, bush, and fit the original bolt. On the barrel front, he wants to use any 700 barrel bored and rifled for .224, then he will chamber it for 5.7. I'll figure out the magazine issues at a later date. So, after I find the right 700SA (most likely 17 Fireball) and a good raw barrel, the build is on.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by ArtosDracon » 24 Nov 2008, 00:10

Good Luck, let us know how it functions and the cost when all is said and done.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by iCeMaN » 24 Nov 2008, 00:24

:agree: In for pics and range report as well

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Krull » 03 Dec 2008, 16:09

I'm just wondering,and I've been trying to see,if a mag for a .22 Hornet would work? my shop has some and I may try to see if a Hornet will be a close fit.

A bolt 5.7 with a 16 or 17in bbl and iron sights with a small scope/dot sight would be rather nice.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Esteves » 03 Dec 2008, 18:30

I've thought that the Ruger 77/22H might make a decent starting point. The rotary magazine shouldn't require any mods. A box magazine probably would require some changes, but I haven't fiddled with any.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by ladderstand » 05 Dec 2008, 13:41

I can understand liking to play with rifles but if you already have a 77/22 in 22 Horney why spend all that money and time to basically duplicate the same ballistics of the Hornet while making it harder and more expensive to get ammo and brass?

Kind of sounds like an excersize if futility or an answer to no question.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Wollychop » 05 Dec 2008, 14:32

It's not really more expensive. .22 Hornet can be pretty expensive. I think the PRVI is like 20 bucks a box of 50.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Esteves » 05 Dec 2008, 14:47

ladderstand wrote:I can understand liking to play with rifles but if you already have a 77/22 in 22 Horney why spend all that money and time to basically duplicate the same ballistics of the Hornet while making it harder and more expensive to get ammo and brass?

Kind of sounds like an excersize if futility or an answer to no question.
Actually, the point is that I (and most everyone else here) already have a source of lots of 5.7x28 ammo and brass. I don't have currently have anything in 22H, and I don't really want to deal with another cartridge (which the 22H would be, for me.)
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 05 Dec 2008, 22:00

ladderstand wrote:I can understand liking to play with rifles but if you already have a 77/22 in 22 Horney why spend all that money and time to basically duplicate the same ballistics of the Hornet while making it harder and more expensive to get ammo and brass?

Kind of sounds like an excersize if futility or an answer to no question.
For me, its all about consolidating caliber. If I can carry a handgun that I really enjoy, and have a lightweight, accurate bolt action that gets even more velocity out of an already speedy round, I'm happy. Just look at the numbers EA is getting out of the FiveseveN, now think about the potential performance from a 20" bolt gun. I don't understand all the talk about expensive ammo. 5.7 costs less than brass cased .223, and is much less than .17 Fireball, the donor rife I plan to build my 5.7 rifle from.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by DV8R » 18 Apr 2009, 19:27

Very interesting! how about an update? even though i think id go for at least 20" maybe even 22-24" barrel as for ps90 is 16 so you already know the basic ballistic capabilities!!im sure you would,or have,achieved 4-600 fps faster ?????

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by DV8R » 19 May 2009, 22:43

still no update on wether achieved? :?:

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Grantness » 19 May 2009, 23:21

I would question whether the 22-Hornet produces the same ballistics as the 5.7x28. Most data I see for the Hornet is out of a 24inch barrel....and yet they are almost comparable to 5.7x28 out of a 16 inch barrel. I'd be very interested to see what 5.7x28 would do out of a 24 inch barrel....unfortunately the main advantage of the 5.7x28 is excelent performance out of a relatively short barrel....so not too many people want to do that.

I will have an 18.5" barrel shortly (its been 8 weeks now). In retrospect, I wish I would have gone a little bit longer w/ it. Logic would dictate ~125fps improvement over the 16" PS90/AR57...however, the T/C is not blowback, so I should be able to push it a bit further.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by alled12 » 20 Nov 2009, 10:34

I think you might even think about necking the 28 case down to either .17 or .20 cal. That should give you a really interesting round. What you would end up with is something a fair bit quicker than .17hmr and 5mm magnum rimfire and definetly more accurate. The costs for running the 28 case will be on par with buying that rimfire ammo. This may be what occurs. All remington short actions are the same length. The magazine is a bit of problem as it is internal. If you had a drop out mag you would be able to put in either a follower or a stop at the front to keep the rounds feeding properly. This project is something I am considering however at the present there is not enough info on it yet. The dies have just appeared over here but we will have to wait until somebody produces a rifle as pistols are banned over here. I will be interested to see when the bolt action rifles come out.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Esteves » 20 Nov 2009, 19:57

Google "17 Velociraptor" or "20 Shrike" :)

I suspect that Calhoon's .19 caliber bullets would be just about perfect for this case.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by burdy » 16 Jan 2010, 13:01

While a 5.7x28mm Bolt Action would be nice, I see it as an answer to a question that hasn't been asked. At this point in the .22 cal and under category, I dont think a ruger .204 can be beat.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 06 Feb 2010, 22:52

Update.

Sorry for the delay guys, I was holding out for FNH to step up and sell one, but another SHOT come and gone with no love. So, I ordered my barrel, reamer, gauges, and stock this week. The action goes to the smith this week for blueprinting and bolt conversion. Unfortunately, the barrel lead time is almost comical in its length, but I'll keep you all posted.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Esteves » 07 Feb 2010, 08:43

Keep us posted!

Out of curiosity, what did you specify for the barrel? Twist? Chamber specs?
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 07 Feb 2010, 12:16

Esteves wrote:Keep us posted!

Out of curiosity, what did you specify for the barrel? Twist? Chamber specs?
I went nuts. Its a Krieger in the Remington varmint profile, 20", fluted, threaded for 1/2x28 break, 1:14 twist, with no chamber. My smith will do all the chambering, one the barrel arrives, some time after pigs fly.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Savag110 » 15 Apr 2010, 16:43

turbobrick wrote:
Esteves wrote:Keep us posted!

Out of curiosity, what did you specify for the barrel? Twist? Chamber specs?
I went nuts. Its a Krieger in the Remington varmint profile, 20", fluted, threaded for 1/2x28 break, 1:14 twist, with no chamber. My smith will do all the chambering, one the barrel arrives, some time after pigs fly.
Good choice on the barrel, keep us posted, if you figure the Mag thing out I might just have to build one up too.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 12 Jun 2010, 19:57

Well, the barrel arrived on Wednesday, and the whole box of parts is at the gunsmith now. Its his busy season, so I'm not too optimistic about getting the finished gun back soon. However, the barrel looked absolutely awesome. I'll definately be picking up another Krieger, if the barrel prints half as good as it looks. The gunsmith, who has been building guns longer than I have been alive, was really impressed with the finish, especially the fluting. He wasn't too excited about working of the magazine, so it'll be a single shot until I get it back and can try to figure it out.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by ynoty3k » 13 Jun 2010, 00:20

:ttiwwp:

Thanks for the update, just remember, pictures are worth a thousand words each

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 13 Jun 2010, 01:14

I agree about the pics, but I felt it more important to get the barrel in his hands before he closed for the day. I went straight from UPS to his shop, and just beat his closing time (he has crazy hours 6am-2ish). Tons of pics to follow when the thing is finally done.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 13 Jun 2010, 01:45

I am with you on this. Though I am personally planning on building my own gun from scratch. I may even go as far as making my own action. I know I will be profiling the barrel. As to those who ask why do it, my answer is twofold. One, because I can. Two it would make a neat suppressed rifle with high velocity bullets that would really do a number on varmints, especially with a can. I think a bolt gun would be more accurate than the semi autos. Also I want a gun that uses common ammunition with my other guns, magazines too when possible. So my project profile includes using a FiveSeven magazine well probably to be machined from aluminum and fitted up to a stainless action. I must start to say that I have NOTHING written on paper other than objectives. No dimensions, no sources for prefab parts or shared info from other people who have done this before. So if we can work together maybe this can get off the ground, what say you?

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 13 Jun 2010, 12:44

I'll share any info I can provide. I'm also more than happy to loan out my reamer and headspace gauges once the gunsmith is done with them. I was also thinking about trying to adapt fiveseven mags, we'll see once the action is barreled and the H-S Percision stock.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 13 Jun 2010, 13:17

Thanks for the offer, but given that I am a gunsmith myself, I would like to have my own set of gauges and reamer. But we might be able to work together a bit. What sort of action did you decide to use?

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 13 Jun 2010, 22:01

Its a brand new Remington 700, that was chambered in 17 Fireball, but only fired at the factory. I got it for a great price, cheaper than I could find anything used locally. It is the SPS-V, so I sold off the stock and made some money to put toward the all black HS Percision with full aluminum block that I really wanted. Its unlikely the take off barrel will have any value, but we'll see. The smith already blueprinted the action, and is using a big recoil lug since we're in there already. It will have a LeVang break (I like them on my .223 rifles), and a Badger extended bolt knob. The scope will be on a one piece Leupold single dovetail with 30mm medium rings. Scope TBD, likely my Nikko-Sterling 4-16X50 side focus.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 14 Jun 2010, 00:33

Sounds good! I may still go that route. If I can find enough time I will do something from scratch though as I have some pretty specific criteria.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by ynoty3k » 14 Jun 2010, 06:23

turbobrick wrote:Its a brand new Remington 700, that was chambered in 17 Fireball, but only fired at the factory. I got it for a great price, cheaper than I could find anything used locally. It is the SPS-V, so I sold off the stock and made some money to put toward the all black HS Percision with full aluminum block that I really wanted. Its unlikely the take off barrel will have any value, but we'll see. The smith already blueprinted the action, and is using a big recoil lug since we're in there already. It will have a LeVang break (I like them on my .223 rifles), and a Badger extended bolt knob. The scope will be on a one piece Leupold single dovetail with 30mm medium rings. Scope TBD, likely my Nikko-Sterling 4-16X50 side focus.
So how much is this little project gonna cost all said and done?

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 14 Jun 2010, 20:39

ynoty3k wrote: So how much is this little project gonna cost all said and done?
I'm trying to not think about that! :lmao:

Honestly, I've traded and sold so many parts it will be hard to figure out total cost. Once the gunsmith gives me a bill, I'll try to put a dollar value on it. I will own the reamer and gauges though, that will be hard to factor in.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 06 Jul 2010, 22:33

Image

Well, its finally done, I got the rifle back on Friday, and fortunately got to head right to the range. After a few shots, I got her pretty quickly sighted in at 50 yards with factory 40 grain V-Max. I moved out to 100 yards, and things were looking great until the wind whipped up. There was obviously some drift going on, so I decided to do the fine tuning on another day. The recoil is basically non-existant, and I'll be interested to put in some chrono work, I'll also see what kind of POI changes happen with ss197. For now, its a single shot, but I will get right on a magazine solution.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 06 Jul 2010, 23:07

Of course now I want to know who did your work so I can have them do it for me too! Nice.....

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by PainKillaX » 06 Jul 2010, 23:20

Damn fine looking gun. We expect full accuracy and reliability reports. And keep us updated on the mag work. Great job!

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by blueorison » 06 Jul 2010, 23:22

Don't know much about that model you have, what kind of bedding does it use?

Gun looks excellent! I'm sure your velocities are darn high versus any other 5.7 platform out there.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 06 Jul 2010, 23:54

The gun was built by well-known gunsmith Lee Baker. He's been in the game for a long time, and is a very talented and skilled man. Its an honor to own a gun he built. I'm actually bummed I didn't have him build a brake, since thats the only part I know of that he actually puts his name on. The HS Precision stock has a full length aluminum block that Lee fit to the oversized recoil lug. I'm not sure if he glass bedded the stock, but thats not usually needed with the aluminum block stocks.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 07 Jul 2010, 00:02

Do you have an aproximate total of what you spent? Also contact info for your smith? If I could simply buy a finished gun instead of having one built that would be better of course. I still think I can come up with a magazine well adapter for this that would take FiveSeven mags.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by f3rr37 » 07 Jul 2010, 00:06

wow, that sure is beautiful no matter what caliber it is in. Since it is in 5.7x28, its even better! :)

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 07 Jul 2010, 01:08

WA-Tom wrote:Do you have an aproximate total of what you spent? Also contact info for your smith? If I could simply buy a finished gun instead of having one built that would be better of course. I still think I can come up with a magazine well adapter for this that would take FiveSeven mags.
Required stuff:
Gun $430
Barrel $500
Stock $350
Headspace gauges and chamber reamer $170
Blueprint action, re-work bolt face, fit barrel to action, chamber barrel $450

Extras:
Base and rings $90
Scope $200
LeVang $40

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by blueorison » 07 Jul 2010, 01:24

Wow, that's so affordable!
:(

Not to mention you got an amazing deal on the original rifle. Thanks for the info! Spending the extra is always worth it, you pay for what you get!!

Maybe one day I'll be able start growing my money tree and afford the rifle :laugh:
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 07 Jul 2010, 08:56

The barrel does not have to cost that much. Fluting adds $150, threading for the brake was $70, stainless adds some cost too. I think the basic barrel could have been had for closer to $250. The project could be done for much less money, the original SPS-V stock would have worked just fine.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 27 Jul 2010, 01:54

OK, I got back to the range for some chrono work. I haven't been able to figure out a magazine, yet. Every time I get close, it looks like I can't do it without cutting into the bottom of the receiver. One more try before I commit that fully. I only have ss195, 197, and 192 at my disposal to test. I have some sized brass, powder, and projectiles, but have not loaded anything yet. I would also like to try some Elite stuff too. For comparison, averages in FPS:

Ammo type 195 197 192

FiveseveN 2100 1669 2008

5-7 Upper 2584 2073 2504

Bolt 5.7 2737 2176 2653

I was hating the stock X-Mark trigger, even though I like the X-Mark in one of my other rifles. So I tried to adjust it a little, and the screw split in half. The trigger still worked, but I decided to try a Rifle Basix, and so far it feels fantastic. We'll see how it works at the range, but I think the groups are going to tighten up.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 27 Jul 2010, 02:15

Usefull data, thank you. Just for my own edification, what is the grainweight of the SS195 bullet? This was the lead free hollow point version right?

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Rapier1772 » 27 Jul 2010, 06:47

WA-Tom wrote:Usefull data, thank you. Just for my own edification, what is the grainweight of the SS195 bullet? This was the lead free hollow point version right?
28gr hollowpoint. Yes, they're lead free
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 27 Jul 2010, 07:58

Edited by poster for being dumb :facepalm: :laugh:

Nice rifle :thumb:
Last edited by flyingirish04 on 06 Jan 2012, 20:01, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 06 Jan 2012, 01:11

Looks like I am back in the game! I will have a working shop by summertime for the first time in 6 years!! I have ordered a reamer and headspace gauges and I already have the barrel blank. I plan on making everything from scratch and working on this as a suppressed rifle, so we shall see how it turns out!

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by srt-4_jon » 06 Jan 2012, 06:15

what twist rate are you planning?

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 06 Jan 2012, 09:38

1 in 12 twist.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 06 Jan 2012, 19:59

Curious, why are you spending so much on a barrel blank? I can get top of the line fluted custom barrels(Lilja, Krieger, benchmark) for way less than that. Anyone can. And wow, lathe costs and blue printing is expensive. Smiths really do get a heckuva a markup. Nice to have 'buddy rates' for my smithing.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 06 Jan 2012, 20:22

Well, given that I am doing the work myself I would have to defend those "smiths that get a heckuva markup". I see few ethical people making a killing in this business that the very govenrment that requires their own lisence seems to be trying to regulate out of existance. Barrel blanks cost about $150 for a good stainless one. Should take about 8-10hrs to machine just the barrel. Given that I value my time at around $20hr that makes for a $350 barrel. Maybe more. Then there's the cost of my machines, the special chamber reamer and go-nogo gauges that will rarely get used other than this job. Those are about $300. So, I can see how this project can get expensive.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 06 Jan 2012, 22:14

I wasn't commenting it was wrong. Market is what it is. I was commenting on how surprised I was for how much they can get for their trade. Good for them. It still is a good margin. That is what you do in business, maximize margins. I am just glad I don't have to pay that! I need to get my buddy better christmas and birthday presents! :thumb:

My point is on your earlier break down you said $500 for the barrel. Didn't make sense. You are talking what you would charge. That makes sense.

So you get barrels for $150? Wow. I can get a 15% off the sticker (around $350 for the contoured and fluted custom barrel) with a vet discount from Lilja, but thats is about as good as it gets. What brand can you buy for $150? And are you doing more than threading, chambering, sizing and crowning them?
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 06 Jan 2012, 22:28

I am not sure you understand, I pay about $150 for a 1.25" diameter stainless barrel blank. No chamber, no threads, no contouring at all. Just a 30" long straight piece of stainless that has been gun drilled and rifled. That was the best price I could find. I would say if you can find a good price on one that is more finished, go for it! I would too. It would take me about 10hrs of machine time to chamber, profile, thread and any other cuts that need to be done.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 06 Jan 2012, 22:42

I understand what a barrel blank is.

You are buying a uncontoured barrel blank, contouring it, then doing the chambering and threading, crowning, sizing, etc. That uncountoured barrel costs $150 bucks. Ok, but who makes that barrel (just curious)? AND, why aren't you just getting it contoured from the barrel manufacturer? Saves you a ton of time.

You can get a barrel blank that is already contoured from just about any custom barrel shop. You can get one contoured for $300 from any of the top barrel manufacturers. Probably shoot tighter groups too. Contouring is a tricky thing with just a regular lathe to do it. The barrel guys have specialized lathes for that, and do it every day. That was what I was getting at. You may be good at doing it yourself though. Just wondering what I am missing, and if there is a cheaper way to do my builds. Make sense?
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 06 Jan 2012, 23:01

Ok, gotcha. I am at work now so my responses may be a bit short. I am planning on making a custom rifle from the ground up. Maybe making a form 1 suppressor for it as well. So turning a blank is really part of the plan. I suppose I could pay someone else to do the work, but why? I am a machinst by trade, I do home gunsmithing for fun. I expect to file for an FFL in the coming year so maybe this project will become a prototype of something bigger.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 07 Jan 2012, 01:20

After I got home I read our exchange on a desktop with more detail than my "smart" phone has. The blanks for my project are made by green mountain. The stainless 1/12 .224 blanks cost me about $150 if I recall. It's been over a year since I had a chance to look at it. I am back on the bandwagon since I am now looking to buy my first home with a two car garage ( shop space). I have ordered the reamer and gauges. I am looking forward to making some chips! I want to design my own rifle from the ground up, nothing ground breaking, old reliable tech, just for use with a 5.7 cartridge. My goal is to make it use FiveSeven pistol magazines that feed, fire and eject reliably. That said I hope it will also be accurate and with the suppressor be not very loud either.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 07 Jan 2012, 11:41

The reason most buy them contoured is because if it messes up the barrel harmonics and doesn't shoot tight, the barrel company will replace it. It is still a barrel blank, it's just that the contouring is already done. you still have to cut, size, chamber and thread.

I had a four contour Krieger and when one of my guns was built, it was grouping terribly. Checked the blueprint job, checked the bedding, even put it on another gun and it was clear the barrel was the issue. Krieger replaced it.

Have you used green mtn before? Never heard of them. That doesnt mean much though. I have only been in the custom world for a year or so. Before that all my knowledge was from hanging with benchrest shooters I know from my range. I will have to ask my bench rest and gunsmith buddies how they are.

Good luck. Looks like you have a great project. I never thought I would be a custom guy. Luckily I have a friend who is a smith, and all he requires me to do is buy the reamer and gauges and all the parts, and he puts together the rifle. Otherwise, this hobby would put me in the poor house for sure, because it is addicting, especially wildcatting.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by srt-4_jon » 07 Jan 2012, 12:54

Green Mtn makes some really decent 10/22 barrels. I havent heard about any of their other barrels but I am sure it will be just fine for this application. He isnt making a 1000yd comp rifle.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 07 Jan 2012, 13:44

No, but a round like this needs a decent barrel none the less to maximize its efficacy at range. Its a varmint round in this setup, so it better be tight shooting, otherwise, what's the point.

I love the idea of using FsN mags. Love to see the detachable box assembly he machines. That will be cool.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 07 Jan 2012, 14:00

Nope, I figure 200 yards it should be quite accurate enough. If not I need to rework my approach some.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by flyingirish04 » 07 Jan 2012, 14:11

I would hope you could develop loads out of a bolt gun in this round to shoot twice that in varmint hunting. Again, good luck, really look forward to your results.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by 22king » 14 Jan 2012, 19:10

Do you guys have any pics of your bolt guns?

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by WA-Tom » 14 Jan 2012, 23:04

No pics so far, it's still in the drawing board and planning stage. I don't even have any prints drawn up for it yet. My machine shop is not even yet functional.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by turbobrick » 20 Jan 2014, 14:44

Still enjoying this little rifle, not getting a ton of range time, but enough to keep from going nuts.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 24 Aug 2016, 07:50

Hopefully this topic isn't completely forgotten about. Just curious if anyone here that has a bolt action 5.7 has had any issues with the 27 grain factory fn ammo? My 1:14 Shilleen barrel doesn't seem to like it, it keyholes every round.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 25 Aug 2016, 05:12

5.7 uses the same bullets as .223. So ANY .223/5.56 rifled barrel will work for it.

Keyholing is normally an issue with too heavy a bullet and a long twist like 1:14. NOT the other way around.

Who the hell thought 1:14 was a good twist rate for a .223 round that likes lighter bullets? What are the rest of the numbers on the barrel? Have you checked them? Have you slugged the barrel to make sure it's the correct caliber?

I know of the one prototype Savage bolt action in 5,7. It's in the private hands of the guy who developed it for Savage. Savage decided not to put the rifle into production. It is a 1:9.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 25 Aug 2016, 07:55

panzermk2 wrote:5.7 uses the same bullets as .223. So ANY .223/5.56 rifled barrel will work for it.

Keyholing is normally an issue with too heavy a bullet and a long twist like 1:14. NOT the other way around.

Who the hell thought 1:14 was a good twist rate for a .223 round that likes lighter bullets? What are the rest of the numbers on the barrel? Have you checked them? Have you slugged the barrel to make sure it's the correct caliber?

I know of the one prototype Savage bolt action in 5,7. It's in the private hands of the guy who developed it for Savage. Savage decided not to put the rifle into production. It is a 1:9.
Barrel is correct caliber, chamber is correct. The gun was not built to shoot 27 grain bullets, I just had some so shot them to see what it would do. They are relatively slow compared to what I load, 36 grain varmint grenades(5.5-5.7 grains of autocomp) which averaged 2320 FPS with 5.5 grains. I have not shot any of the 5.7 grain loads yet because it has been to miserable hot to do anything outside lately. No issues with gun as far as function. Gun info is

Remington 700SA (was brand new 243 that got stripped)
PTG solid body bolt with medium sako extractor
Shileen #5 contour 16 inch barrel
Magpul Hunter 700 Stock
Timney 510 trigger

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 29 Aug 2016, 05:26

So update on the 27 grain bullet problem. Turns out it might have been a range problem(my range looks like a jungle at the moment), there were a few blades of tall grass in front of my target and I believe the bullet was hitting those and starting to tumble. I could be wrong but a fast moving small bullet can be affected by stuff like that. I say that because if I moved higher on the target away from grass, the keyholes stopped. The 36 grain loads did produce a 1in group this weekend so I believe the gun is as good as it is going to get for what it is. Buddies gun built a little different but same basic setup was getting .75 groups with american eagle ammo(40grain). My handloads might need some adjusting or tweaking still.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 29 Aug 2016, 12:43

What was the total cost of this project?
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 29 Aug 2016, 16:21

Well if I had to pin a number to it lets see if I can add it up. I am just a simple Arkansas man so will take my shoes off real quick.

Donor gun= 280
Bolt= 250
Barrel= 470
Trigger= 125
Magazine(yeah you read correct, it is not a bobsled gun, it actually holds ammo and feeds them =-0) Trade for an Timney Arisaka 7.7 trigger so basically free but market value 85 bucks give or take.
Stock/Bottom metal= Freebie
Brake= recycle from old gun
Scope= 300
Rings and base= recycle from old stuff
Machining(headspacing etc..)= practice for me so practically free minus lathe and tool costs that I already owned
Total= 1425..... so not much different than a ps90 and ten times as cool to shoot and look at than a ps90 any day of the week. Unless you count the money I recoup from selling the old parts, brand new 243 barrel, bolt body, bdl stock and x mark trigger, had cheap 3-9x30 simmons scope and rings so maybe 150 bucks resale value for all on a good day? If I could figure out how to post a picture you would see a few of it.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 30 Aug 2016, 15:44

:thumb:
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 31 Aug 2016, 14:19

Image
Image
Image

Maybe these will work
Last edited by Rapier1772 on 31 Aug 2016, 21:48, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Nope but good enough to fix :D

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 02 Sep 2016, 07:23

Very cool!
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 02 Sep 2016, 10:09

Thanks, hope to get it dialed in really tight soon. Will keep updates coming in as well with handloads, I should be able to get pretty fast.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Oberta003 » 02 May 2017, 10:15

roostercogburn wrote:
29 Aug 2016, 16:21
Well if I had to pin a number to it lets see if I can add it up. I am just a simple Arkansas man so will take my shoes off real quick.

Donor gun= 280
Bolt= 250
Barrel= 470
Trigger= 125
Magazine(yeah you read correct, it is not a bobsled gun, it actually holds ammo and feeds them =-0) Trade for an Timney Arisaka 7.7 trigger so basically free but market value 85 bucks give or take.
Stock/Bottom metal= Freebie
Brake= recycle from old gun
Scope= 300
Rings and base= recycle from old stuff
Machining(headspacing etc..)= practice for me so practically free minus lathe and tool costs that I already owned
Total= 1425..... so not much different than a ps90 and ten times as cool to shoot and look at than a ps90 any day of the week. Unless you count the money I recoup from selling the old parts, brand new 243 barrel, bolt body, bdl stock and x mark trigger, had cheap 3-9x30 simmons scope and rings so maybe 150 bucks resale value for all on a good day? If I could figure out how to post a picture you would see a few of it.
What magazine did you use? Or where did you get it? I am building a rifle similar and really rather it be a repeater. Thank you

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 27 Jun 2017, 08:50

Oberta003 wrote:
02 May 2017, 10:15
roostercogburn wrote:
29 Aug 2016, 16:21
Well if I had to pin a number to it lets see if I can add it up. I am just a simple Arkansas man so will take my shoes off real quick.

Donor gun= 280
Bolt= 250
Barrel= 470
Trigger= 125
Magazine(yeah you read correct, it is not a bobsled gun, it actually holds ammo and feeds them =-0) Trade for an Timney Arisaka 7.7 trigger so basically free but market value 85 bucks give or take.
Stock/Bottom metal= Freebie
Brake= recycle from old gun
Scope= 300
Rings and base= recycle from old stuff
Machining(headspacing etc..)= practice for me so practically free minus lathe and tool costs that I already owned
Total= 1425..... so not much different than a ps90 and ten times as cool to shoot and look at than a ps90 any day of the week. Unless you count the money I recoup from selling the old parts, brand new 243 barrel, bolt body, bdl stock and x mark trigger, had cheap 3-9x30 simmons scope and rings so maybe 150 bucks resale value for all on a good day? If I could figure out how to post a picture you would see a few of it.
What magazine did you use? Or where did you get it? I am building a rifle similar and really rather it be a repeater. Thank you
I had help from a buddy to build a custom follower on a mill from aluminum. The magazine we used was a standard AI style mag with removable insert. I believe I got it from Midway. As far as the insert that is just a shoot from the hip and see what works with your rifle. It might take a couple of tries.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 11 Jul 2017, 06:18

So I think the magic weight for the bolt gun is 40 grain (used factory AE and had good results). Granted I only got 65 yards to plink with on the range it still holds a pretty good group. I averaged 2095 FPS with factory loads. Got some pull down 40 grainers coming from EA so may be able to load up some and get a few hundred more FPS.[img2=]Image[img2=]Image[/img2][/img2][/img2]
Last edited by roostercogburn on 16 Jul 2017, 13:37, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 12 Jul 2017, 11:33

Nice.
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 24 Jul 2017, 08:28

panzermk2 wrote:
12 Jul 2017, 11:33
Nice.
What do you think the interest level would be for a mag insert that would let folks be able to have a repeater Rem700 action built 5.7? Just gauging interest before I jump off a cliff with this thing. I know a million different factors come into play but just out of curiosity for me really.

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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by panzermk2 » 25 Jul 2017, 08:57

No damn clue. But if you think you hear .223 is better than the 5.7 it will only get louder.

I just read a review of a Howa bolt action, but it was a short action. Howa, its a Mauser action, has a 1500 series short action rifle.
It comes in .223 which could be re chambered, they also have detachable magazine kits for the 1500.

Since the Rem is nothing more than a Mauser clone, Howa's are manufactured better in my opinion and cheaper. So it might be a better jumping off point.

http://www.firearmsnews.com/uncategoriz ... magazines/


https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/ho ... 500-hogue/
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by grimmond » 25 Jul 2017, 10:49

roostercogburn wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 08:28
panzermk2 wrote:
12 Jul 2017, 11:33
Nice.
What do you think the interest level would be for a mag insert that would let folks be able to have a repeater Rem700 action built 5.7? Just gauging interest before I jump off a cliff with this thing. I know a million different factors come into play but just out of curiosity for me really.
I'll take one if available.
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roostercogburn
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 25 Jul 2017, 11:18

panzermk2 wrote:
25 Jul 2017, 08:57
No damn clue. But if you think you hear .223 is better than the 5.7 it will only get louder.

I just read a review of a Howa bolt action, but it was a short action. Howa, its a Mauser action, has a 1500 series short action rifle.
It comes in .223 which could be re chambered, they also have detachable magazine kits for the 1500.

Since the Rem is nothing more than a Mauser clone, Howa's are manufactured better in my opinion and cheaper. So it might be a better jumping off point.

http://www.firearmsnews.com/uncategoriz ... magazines/


https://www.legacysports.com/catalog/ho ... 500-hogue/
So I guess I should have been more specific. The starting magazine is one that would ideally fit any rifle that has aftermarket bottom metal that will accept an AI style magazine. The adapter in its current state only fits one type of magazine but could probably be adjusted for multiple brands. There are tons of manufactures that make those bottom metals and having some inlet work done on the stock is pretty common practice these days. I have a Howa 1500 in 308 that shoots .338 groups consistently so they are really close to Rem quality that I agree. Short action would be the only requirement I think to make it work. Got a buddy who has one (5.7) built on a model 7 SA and mine is built on a 700SA and they both work good in my opinion. Just ideas in my head I suppose for now.


Last edited by roostercogburn on 25 Jul 2017, 11:28, edited 1 time in total.

roostercogburn
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 25 Jul 2017, 11:25

grimmond wrote:
25 Jul 2017, 10:49
roostercogburn wrote:
24 Jul 2017, 08:28
panzermk2 wrote:
12 Jul 2017, 11:33
Nice.
What do you think the interest level would be for a mag insert that would let folks be able to have a repeater Rem700 action built 5.7? Just gauging interest before I jump off a cliff with this thing. I know a million different factors come into play but just out of curiosity for me really.
I'll take one if available.

Trying to tie up some loose ends and see how feasible it would be to make more than one of. Currently I spend a few hours with some delrin, a dremel, drill press, and my sanding machine to get one made. I don't have a milling machine yet but that would make it so much easier....sooooooon

roostercogburn
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 07 Jun 2018, 07:20

New paint and testing groups with a can. [img2=ImageImage][/img2]

roostercogburn
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 07 Jun 2018, 07:35

60 yard groups with can. same poa/poi as uncanned. wish I could post a video for everyone to see it cycle.Image

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Rapier1772
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by Rapier1772 » 07 Jun 2018, 10:43

That's a nice looking rifle, the fact that it shoots 5.7 makes it even better :D
How to post pics & videos: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6363
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roostercogburn
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Re: 5.7x28 bolt action

Post by roostercogburn » 07 Jun 2018, 17:08

Rapier1772 wrote:
07 Jun 2018, 10:43
That's a nice looking rifle, the fact that it shoots 5.7 makes it even better :D
Thanks, it continues to impress me evertime I shoot it. Found a good load and can't seem to crank them out fast enough to cover a shooting session.

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