FiveseveN Failure to Eject

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FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 25 Jul 2010, 12:45

Unfortunately I've suffered a setback in my "ultimate FSN" project. I have made two major mofications, 1 is the Jarvis barrel; 2 is Burris Fastfire II mounted atop the slide using the mount from Rob at True Hunter Supply.

First time testing out the new mods at the range this weekend, round would fire, but spent casing was still in the chamber. I was using whitebox SS192, and BlueBox SS195LF. I tried this about 10 times, same result. Only one time did I get the actual round to eject, but it FTF the next round.

Unforunately , i dont know which modiication is causing the problem... is it the Jarvis barrel, or is it the Fastfire holosight.... or is it both? :wall:

Unfortunately I left the stock barrel and spring assembly at home, so my next step is to reinstall the factory barrel with the Fastfire on top and see if the problem repeats. If it does, then my question would be... does anyone have an issue with FTF/FTE with aftermarket optics? Do I need to use a lighter spring since I have increased the mass of the slide?

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by Rapier1772 » 25 Jul 2010, 12:58

I'd try the old barrel first and let EA polish the Jarvis chamber. Did the slide cycle normally?
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 25 Jul 2010, 13:06

No I dont think the slide cycled normally, its obviously not cycling "far back" enough to eject the spent casing. As the spent casing is left in the chamber, fired, when the gun comes back to rest. The gun felt like I was shooting underpowered loads.

The Jarvis spring did feel a lot stiffer than the factory spring... hmmmm.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by blueorison » 25 Jul 2010, 13:11

NOT the Fastfire and mount bro.

It's your Jarvis barrel.

I'll put $50 bucks on it, even.

Chamber too tight or spaced incorrectly.

$50 bucks your factory bbl will have no issues. :)
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 26 Jul 2010, 09:31

I put a call into Jarvis, guy was pretty familiar with the problem... says it doesn't happen frequently but it has happened on some barrels.

*Told me to thoroughly clean, oil, and lubricate the barrel and spring for an extended duration.
*Said that the magazine should be as unloaded as possible, in fact, start shooting without the magazine in. The friction from a heavily-loaded mag (I was using 30rd CMMG mag) puts resistance against the slide as it tries to come rearwords. Lubricating the slide, mag, bullets, etc, will help this situation.
*Said eventually the barrel should break-in and the functionality will become more and more normal, as I keep shooting rounds through it and continue lubing it.

Sounds reasonable, too bad I'm going to have to put some serious time and effort to get a $400 barrel to work the way it should. Otherwise, the craftsmanshp of the Jarvis is top-notch; the functionality doesn't get the same review though.

I asked him if he uses a stiffer spring, and he assured me it was a 19lb spring. But I can tell you, there is a definate difference in how the springs feel doing a side-by-side comparison. It might be he uses a different spring manufactuere, or the fact that his springs are brand new, maybe they need to be worked-in a little. the 30rd mags are also something to think about. With more mass on the slide, 30rd mags, and a brand new barrel, I was doomed for failure.

Will keep everyone posted.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by blueorison » 27 Jul 2010, 10:35

Thanks Seahawk!

Jarvis guy has a point; 1. Strong mag springs do cause feeding malfunctions; it does place resistance on the slide, this can be seen with new factory 20 round mags. Sometimes they don't cause the slide to close completely from the upwards pressure on the feeding cartridge from cartridges below when the mag is fully loaded to capacity. However, it usually only takes some shooting and reloading the mags a few times.

2. IMO it's not the friction as much as it is the pressure; lubing will help slip the feeding bullet in faster, perhaps, due to the loss in friction, but you cannot lube or reduce the amount of friction caused from the cartridge below pushing up upon the feeding cartridge.

3. FsN springs are VERY strong (for me) when new-ish. They do lighten a bit with use. Depending on how much you've cycled/used/worn in your stock spring, it might feel different.

4. I don't think you were doomed for failure. Also, his comment on the 30 round mag I don't particularly agree upon as 30 rounds would not necessarily have more pressure than 20 rounds in a stock mag. If you're using the same spring as your stock mag in a longer mag; typically, when you get to a certain number or rounds in your mag you will actually come up with ALOT less spring pressure than with the same round count in your stock mag. I think it could go either way, meaning that if you're shooting a full mag in your 30 rounder, going from full to empty, it could be slightly unreliable with the Jarvis. I wish for you that once it breaks in it'll work perfectly with your 30 rounders!

.02

I hope you have fun shootin' while she breaks in! Thanks for your update, much appreciated.
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by Never Enough » 27 Jul 2010, 18:52

First post guys enjoy this site very much, as a proud owner of the FiveseveN i have had nothing but trouble with the 30 round mag from ---mag.Stock twenty round mag everything is good, thirty round bad.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 28 Jul 2010, 06:53

The 30 round IS the stock 20 round, it just has an extension down the bottom with a slightly longer spring. This means that the feed lips, body, and follower are all the SAME MAG. The only possibly difference between the 30 and 20 is the amount of spring pressure.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by RAIDENelder » 28 Jul 2010, 07:28

@Never Enough: I had the same problem with the "Pro-Mag" 30 rounders. The FN +10 round extensions work great.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by Gatorr » 28 Jul 2010, 08:57

RAIDENelder wrote:@Never Enough: I had the same problem with the "Pro-Mag" 30 rounders. The FN +10 round extensions work great.
Yeah, I agree. Pro-mag's, for any firearm, are crap. The CMMG extensions are good.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by Never Enough » 28 Jul 2010, 13:09

seahawk;sounds like a very nice FiveseveN with the modifications but the 30 round mag certainly seems suspect, how does it shoot with the 20 round mags? Not to be picking on the 30 rounders but there seems to be a consensus with our fellow shooters. Anxious to hear your specific out come hope its something easy.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by blueorison » 28 Jul 2010, 13:41

Threads reviewing the Promag and CMMG and the 30 rounders and their reliability has been covered umpteenth amounts of times.

If one used the search function, they could also find much of what they are seeking. Another alternative is google, which works just ask well in finding posts on this forum :)

Welcome to the forum, Never Enough :) I hope you enjoy your stay.
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by Never Enough » 28 Jul 2010, 15:27

Thank you Blueorison, did not mean to review or seek. I had problems with F T E and the afore mentioned was the problem, sorry

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by burdy » 28 Jul 2010, 16:50

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote: Sounds reasonable, too bad I'm going to have to put some serious time and effort to get a $400 barrel to work the way it should. Otherwise, the craftsmanshp of the Jarvis is top-notch; the functionality doesn't get the same review though.
Rule number one is that my firearm cycles correctly. I would be nothing short of pissed if my $400 barrel didn't work, and I wouldn't care about the craftsmanship. If I ever needed a threaded barrel, judging from all the issues Ive read, I would just have my factory barrel threaded and skip the headache.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by panzermk2 » 28 Jul 2010, 20:55

We sell extra power mag springs. All 15 of my FsN mags have them. I have never had an issue with slide function or extractions because of these springs. Due to testing guns they have been used in dozens of other FsNs besides mine and with every kind of ammo including thousands of rounds of SS197.

It is my opinion one hell of a stretch to think that issues that don't occur with the factory barrel but occur with an after market one are all of a sudden related to the magazine spring. Any body on the forum who has my springs will tell you they are a heck of a lot stronger.

Extraction issues = magazine springs? Sorry I just can't buy that.
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by panzermk2 » 28 Jul 2010, 20:56

I will do you one better. Send me the barrel and I will figure out what's wrong, fix it and post every thing here.
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 29 Jul 2010, 08:03

Wow... what an offer! :thumb:

Let me get back to the range this weekend and see if I can't cycle at least 100 rounds through the barrel using regular 20rd, lightly loaded mags, and a whole lot of rem oil. I will also try some with the stock barrel.

If it still feeds like poo, It will be in a box on its way to Idaho, or wherever you guys are.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by panzermk2 » 29 Jul 2010, 08:32

Harvard, IL.
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by Rapier1772 » 29 Jul 2010, 09:33

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:If it still feeds like poo, It will be in a box on its way to Idaho, or wherever you guys are.
You can still send it to Idaho if you want, let me know & I'll send you my address :p
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 29 Jul 2010, 09:39

Illinois! Land of Obama... oh joy!

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by f3rr37 » 29 Jul 2010, 09:40

Don't worry, they're fighting back... one round at a time.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by Rapier1772 » 29 Jul 2010, 09:44

f3rr37 wrote:Don't worry, they're fighting back... one round at a time.
Votes would be more effective at this point. But the rounds may come in very handy later
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by panzermk2 » 29 Jul 2010, 10:16

SeaHawkDriver-B wrote:Illinois! Land of Obama... oh joy!

King Richard has done more damage locally. Bama never served a full term in the Senate so he wasn't here long enough to f@ck the place up like he is doing to the country right now.
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by blueorison » 29 Jul 2010, 12:05

Just talked to a chick coming to Texas and wants to join the UTRP team. She's from Illinois and we chatted for an hour or so, I derived that Illinois was pretty much CA all over again; apparently the people there are really grouchy, also. :D

Hope you get it fixed, sir! Another testament of EA's custo... uhh well you weren't even a customer hahaha

That's how cool EA is. :lmao:
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 31 Jul 2010, 13:56

Update.

Well it appears the "Jarvis Fix" has worked. After thoroughly soaking all moving parts in CLP, including a light spraying of CLP on the bullets, the feed ramp, and the chamber, I loaded up the mag with just one round. Fired 10 rounds through the gun with a single round. All successfully ejected. Loaded the gun up with 5 rounds, hit it with a shot of CLP, and it successfully cycled 5 more rounds without a FTF. Then I loaded up 10 rounds and repeated... loaded up 15 rounds and repeated.... 20 rounds and repeated. Didn't have a single FTF or FTE the whole time.

Unforutnatley I didn't bring enough bullets to see where the "threshold" may be.... loading the 30rd up to capacity might be a problem. I will have to do further testing to see if thats the case.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by Rapier1772 » 31 Jul 2010, 14:07

glad you got it working :thumb:
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by panzermk2 » 31 Jul 2010, 21:31

Pretty scary you have to bathe the gun and ammo in lube to get it to work.
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by IncVoid » 02 Aug 2010, 16:33

Hello SeaHawk. I'm new to gun forums. I bought my FiveSeven on November 7th, '08. from Outdoor sportsman here in Stockton, California.
Maybe Put 90 rnds if not 140 rnds through it.
I have only thrown away 2 or 3 empty boxes over the last 2 years.

I get failure to extract problems in the factory barrel, unless I lube up the casings with silicone based lube.
Some casings fly 7 feet away (the 40 grain ss197sr) when well lubed.
Others feel like they just fall out going only 2-3 feet. (Probably the 27 grain ss195lf)

I haven't cleaned my gun with any solvents or anything other then dry cleaning with the little cleaning kit that came with it.
Think I should just keep trying to "break" the barrel in still? With or without lube? Get actual gun lube?
The silicone stuff just keeps like drying up after a few days. I would lube them up and next day or day after shoot a couple rounds.

The last few days it did FTE. late at night only have one round in the chamber, empty mag, pulled trigger no case ejection, the "empty mag stay open" lever didn't hold the slide open either.

I noticed last time I took apart the slide and putting the extraction arm back on that pushing it down by hand sometimes the spring appeared to catch on its slot it rides in sandwiched between the slide and the arm. Maybe my extraction arm isn't allowing the casing to extract and the extraction pin is stopping the slide from traveling back all the way, which is why the slide didn't lock open from the empty mag?

1.5 hours after the single round fte I fired the heavier bullets(ss197sr) and got about 3 jams. Mostly new bullets failing to enter.
Relubed the casings of all the rounds going in the mag. Had no jams but I only fired 4 rounds. 3 ss197sr's and 1 ss195lf.

I know this is all inconsistant firing practice shooting only a few at a time. etc.
Would some very fine sandpaper taken to the chamber help or is that a big no no?
Best taken to my local gunshop so they can polish the chamber for me and that will solve it?

The first question I should have asked is: Why get a second barrel for the FiveSeven? Longer?
I'm a total gun noob especially out here in california. A quick google shows threaded jarvis barrel. Flash hiders probably illegal in california on a hand gun. I don't even bother thinking about it. But I'll keep it in mind the next time I pickup a box of five seven ammo.

Last box ran me 23.99$ of ss195lf

Sorry for no having anything to contribute to your problem.
if it helps the last box of ss195lf is LOT: FNB09J910-005
My new box of ss196sr is just stamped 1007969020 on the inside top cover.
probably just an unclean barrel more than the ammo.

Well any help and post criticsm is much appreciated. thanks.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 03 Aug 2010, 09:30

It seems to me that the FiveseveN has some FTE/FTF problems unless it has been properly lubricated and/or broken-in. Obvoiusly some guns have this issue, and other do not. AND, some guns only manifest this issue when you change things, like using ProMag magazines, different rate mag springs, or while using the +10 extension baseplates.

It can reasonably assumed that several variables are at play here.

I got the Jarvis barrel becusae it was a one-piece threaded barrel that I needed for my suppressor. Apparently there is another option now (which i did not know about at the time) where Tornado technologies can weld an additional length onto the factory barrel and thread it as such.... Personally i've looked at the Jarvis barrel and the machining is fantastic, maybe even superior to the factory setup, so I won't waste any time wondering if the Tornoado-Tech was a better choice. Personally, I like having multiple barrels for the gun, both for longevity and interchangability.

I'm going to give my gun a thoroughly cleaning, lube it up well, and cycle 300 rounds through it this weekend. Give it another cleaning, and hopefully it should work flawlessly from now on.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by panzermk2 » 03 Aug 2010, 14:18

Or you might try polishing your chamber.
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by blueorison » 05 Aug 2010, 00:35

I second Jay's opinion.

Inc, check your messages.
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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by Never Enough » 25 Aug 2010, 14:43

Weak magazine springs= Extraction issues funny but true

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by IncVoid » 08 Sep 2010, 23:35

I fired about 40 rounds since. But lubed with silicone lube. Basically ky jelly. I figure its none combustible. Should be safe.
Works great.

On a big side note. Here in stockton just tonight I talked to some sheriffs. Asked about open carry which just went up to vote to be banned. Its very sad. The sheriffs pretty much said that I'd be put down on my face every time they saw me open carrying. Also that I'd make myself a robbery target for open carrying.

I was at a friends. Saw some body pulled over. After they finished I approached them and asked if I could ask questions. They asked if I had weapons. Blah blah. Did warrent check asked their opinion on open carry. They basically said I was just making myself a target. Which I agree with. But the only sad thing is one said he wish my gun was melted down. Saying five sevens are basically being .223's in a handgun. Getting around it. I've talked to my friend I realize inner city open carrying is kinda risky. Its just sad they want MY handgun out of my possession. I dunno what to say. After they warrant checked me and gave me back my cell and ammo I walked back to my friends. I left my actual hand gun in my backpack at my friends. They said it was strange approaching them with magazines. I said I was just seperating my handgun from my ammo. Its just sad they don't want my gun at my side. With signs advertising the number of murders in stockton, california I wish they'd encourage me to carry, at least in residence. Just an eerie feeling. They said the 5.7mm would go through their vest, which scares me. I thought the ss197 and ss196 was specifically loaded NOT to go through. But oh well. Thanks for listening to me.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by blueorison » 09 Sep 2010, 00:50

IncVoid wrote:I fired about 40 rounds since. But lubed with silicone lube. Basically ky jelly. I figure its none combustible. Should be safe.
Works great.

On a big side note. Here in stockton just tonight I talked to some sheriffs. Asked about open carry which just went up to vote to be banned. Its very sad. The sheriffs pretty much said that I'd be put down on my face every time they saw me open carrying. Also that I'd make myself a robbery target for open carrying.

I was at a friends. Saw some body pulled over. After they finished I approached them and asked if I could ask questions. They asked if I had weapons. Blah blah. Did warrent check asked their opinion on open carry. They basically said I was just making myself a target. Which I agree with. But the only sad thing is one said he wish my gun was melted down. Saying five sevens are basically being .223's in a handgun. Getting around it. I've talked to my friend I realize inner city open carrying is kinda risky. Its just sad they want MY handgun out of my possession. I dunno what to say. After they warrant checked me and gave me back my cell and ammo I walked back to my friends. I left my actual hand gun in my backpack at my friends. They said it was strange approaching them with magazines. I said I was just seperating my handgun from my ammo. Its just sad they don't want my gun at my side. With signs advertising the number of murders in stockton, california I wish they'd encourage me to carry, at least in residence. Just an eerie feeling. They said the 5.7mm would go through their vest, which scares me. I thought the ss197 and ss196 was specifically loaded NOT to go through. But oh well. Thanks for listening to me.

Good but somber post, sir.

They thought you had ss190's, they were uninformed, on both fronts of the pistol and what ammunition you did or did not have.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by f3rr37 » 09 Sep 2010, 08:24

IncVoid wrote:After they finished I approached them and asked if I could ask questions. They asked if I had weapons. Blah blah. Did warrent check asked their opinion on open carry.
They seriously asked you all of that and then ran your info? I would have just walked away at that point.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by fd57 » 09 Sep 2010, 10:50

Always remember "Am I free to go?" (AIFTG).

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by IncVoid » 09 Sep 2010, 22:44

Yeah... They kinda looked at me strange, asking why I walked up to them with ammo in pocket...cause I seperated my ammo from my gun which in my lock box at my friends a few houses down from where they pulled a car over. I realize they aren't lawyers, but they are the ones doing the "charging".

Oh well. But I will keep the "Am I free to go" in my mind from now on.

They said they aren't common handguns. I said that is why I got it. I said I've only seen one, they said one too many. lol. SUV sheriff came. said something about "sarge" saying it was going up for ban soon. I know I'm going to try to get my brother to get one in November when I get the money. If he doesn't want it, I'm getting a second one. On another side note. I'm also carrying those big heavy rubber weighted trainers. I figure it'll look like i'm carrying, feel like it, without actually carrying. I figure its practice. How does one plan a direct route to a friends house carrying unloaded in locked container, and avoid parks and school zones...lol. Oh well.

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Re: FiveseveN Failure to Eject

Post by blueorison » 09 Sep 2010, 22:45

IncVoid wrote:Yeah... They kinda looked at me strange, asking why I walked up to them with ammo in pocket...cause I seperated my ammo from my gun which in my lock box at my friends a few houses down from where they pulled a car over. I realize they aren't lawyers, but they are the ones doing the "charging".

Oh well. But I will keep the "Am I free to go" in my mind from now on.

They said they aren't common handguns. I said that is why I got it. I said I've only seen one, they said one too many. lol. SUV sheriff came. said something about "sarge" saying it was going up for ban soon. I know I'm going to try to get my brother to get one in November when I get the money. If he doesn't want it, I'm getting a second one. On another side note. I'm also carrying those big heavy rubber weighted trainers. I figure it'll look like i'm carrying, feel like it, without actually carrying. I figure its practice. How does one plan a direct route to a friends house carrying unloaded in locked container, and avoid parks and school zones...lol. Oh well.

Those darn trainers are so darn expensive. It's just a stupid block of plastic. I figure they maybe carve some out by hand/dremmel.

I would love a second FsN to trick out with a colour code.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

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