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Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 04 Feb 2015, 20:02
by Rapier1772
http://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-police-t ... 26288.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ferguson police are testing new methods of incapacitating suspects — six months after a highly controversial police shooting involving one of their officers.
This week, five instructors for the Missouri city’s police department are training to use a "less lethal" device, called the Alternative, which has enough force to knock a suspect to the ground but not kill him or her.
The Alternative is a small orange device that attaches to the top of a normal handgun and extends a Ping-Pong-ball-sized projectile in front of the muzzle.
After traveling through the barrel, the bullet embeds itself inside the alloy projectile, and the docking unit immediately detaches from the weapon, according to the manufacturer.
This process decreases the bullet's velocity and dampens its impact. The bullet, then, should not pierce a human’s skin and cause the type of internal damage that would kill the person. However, it retains enough blunt force to knock someone over and deliver severe, debilitating pain
Why not make resisting arrest (& all that other crap you might get shot for) legal while they're at it? :skep:

I feel sorry for the police.

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 05:47
by Mister Freeze
sounds like a rifle-grenade type of device, propelled by an actual bullet

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 06:57
by Rapier1772
That's kind of what I thought too
But what happens when the "Alternative" fails to actually stop someone?
What happens if you have one of these on your gun & suddenly you're in a real fire fight?

Too many what-ifs but then I guess that is what testing is for right?

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 07:37
by kfeltenberger
So I guess my idea of riot police riding bears won't be adopted.

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 07:49
by Oldbindlestiff

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 09:40
by DoubleJ
So wait, a bullet, due to the laws of physics, can't knock a person down. A bullet fired into a polymer ping pong ball can?

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 10:37
by Stitches1974
DoubleJ wrote:So wait, a bullet, due to the laws of physics, can't knock a person down. A bullet fired into a polymer ping pong ball can?
Video posted above says an alloy projectile, but I agree with you. I think it will just piss someone off, rather than knocking them down. Wonder how long it will be after these hit the streets that a lawsuit comes out of it.

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 11:07
by kfeltenberger
Or someone gets shout in the face and loses an eye or has a cheekbone shattered, or gets shot in the groin and possibly loses a testicle or worse.

This is the equivalent of an idea dreamed up at 2AM in an alcohol fueled haze and sketched on the back of a bar napkin by two guys who only saw dollar signs in their idiocy.

If you are in a position to respond with a less than lethal weapon, use a Taser. Why anyone would think putting that dingus on a lethal weapon and hoping it it was done right is beyond me. "But...but...I thought it was installed correctly...I didn't mean to kill Jethro Brown..."

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 11:31
by Oldbindlestiff
Well, if employed in a "static" stand-off situation (with a back-up officer present), it might be useful. IF it works.

"Standfast, sir! I am deploying my non-lethal weapon." :lmao:

No misunderstanding, please. I am in favor of non-lethal alternatives, when and where appropriate.

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 12:24
by Rapier1772
Also, what are the chances this device causes a firearm malfunction?

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 12:36
by jgreenberg01
kfeltenberger wrote:So I guess my idea of riot police riding bears won't be adopted.
Unarmed bears, no.

Bears with fricken laser beams, yes.

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 13:29
by PainKillaX
Rapier1772 wrote: What happens if you have one of these on your gun & suddenly you're in a real fire fight?
The photo on the article says "no obstruction to the gun or its performance".

Figure with that M&P9 you're carrying 17+1, the first one pops out your less-than-lethal, you've still got 17 follow-up shots. I think this maybe offers an advantage over a standalone LTL, because you immediately have your firearm on target.

I'd guess that it also wouldn't be likely to cause a malfunction. At the point of impact the bullet will have already all but left the barrel. The failures I could see would be related to the device adding too much weight for the slide to properly recoil.


Good luck finding a holster for it...

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 13:55
by Mister Freeze

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 05 Feb 2015, 14:04
by Rapier1772
The holster isn't an issue, according to the vid Oldbindlestiff posted it is something you put on the gun after it is drawn.

My issue is if a BG is approaching, you decide a less lethal option is in order so you pop it on your gun. Now his buddies come out of the wood work & you're up smeg creek. So you fire the first round & the ball comes off but fails to incapacitate the attacker & on top of that, the mount which was supposed to eject off is somehow hung up & causing your gun to jam.
I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law & this was just one of the ways I see these things playing out.

Another thing which is mentioned in the article, what about those seconds it takes you to put the thing on your gun? You gonna yell "Time out!" & hope everyone stops in place? Or are you going to get stabbed/shot while putting this thing on your gun?


EDIT: Freeze, did you mean to post that here? Looks like it is more suited for the Thermal Micro Sights thread?

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 13:18
by Weshowe
Gents,

We already have a "less than lethal" round. It's called a Shotgun with Bean Bags or Rubber Buckshot...

Doing that to a pistol is just plain asinine.

Wes

Re: Police to use "less lethal" attachment on their guns

Posted: 13 Feb 2015, 18:16
by Middian
Ya, this seems ridiculous! The police have plenty of non-lethal options, and this one seems to more of a hindrance to their lethal option.