FiveseveNForum.com

Illegal immigration into this country exists because life here is preferable to that in their native country. Now BHO proposes to do as much immigration reform as possible without Congressional help. His plan is more agents and facilities to handle the increased traffic. That's only going to encourage more illegal immigration.

I remember an effort 20 years ago to put water stations in the deserts of the Southwest as a humanitarian effort. Tis only made that natural barrier easier to cross. The answer here is to CLOSE facilities and to conduct mass deportations. Making crossing our border LESS appealing rather than rewarding illegal crossers with 3 hots and a cot is better for us and safer for them by deterring people from sending their children north.

I see that you live "somewhere in Texas." I live 70 miles from the border, am currently working in another town that is 70 miles from the border, and having been a full-time RVer for about a year lived in an RV park that was within walking distance of the Rio Grande River.

I am also unique as most Texans go: I have traveled quite a bit in Mexico and am comfortable in the border towns.

Bottom line is that if you get your info from people that are afraid of Latins, or conservative "news" sources, or people with no actual experience then you are being a tool of the political forces. And you are being manipulated.

Let it go. Contrary to what the media is telling you the Border Patrol has reinforcements around here living in motels. There are NO militia types around, or at least no one can find them and we've tried. There has been an influx around McAllen for *YEARS*. Right now they are getting quite a few women and children from Honduras and only the most heartless would want them to die in the desert.

We spent billions to kill and maim Afghans and Iraqis. The least that we can do is to feed a few thousand children from Honduras until they can go home.

Oh, and you do know that cities like Reynosa, McAllen, Laredo and Nuevo Laredo are so close that people regularly wade the Rio Grand to shop at the groceries across the borders? It's not geographically feasible to build a silly wall and no one in those areas wants the ugly thing.

The border has to be closed first. PERIOD Children now, terrorist will be next. This flood of illegals has got to stop. We have people in this country that need help. We cannot save the world, no matter how much the bleeding hearts think we can.

Just my 2 cents from a conservative right wing nut job.

I agree w/bob.
Someone against all the wars we (the US) were fighting once told me, "We can't be the world's police." I agree with that, but by the same token, we also can't be the world's charity. We have so many problems here at home that our economy is close to tanking. If China calls in our debts, we're screwed.

On a personal note, I spent my time in the military. I didn't volunteer to die defending this country and the people in it if need be, just to give it away & support illegals because it's the PC thing to do. Most veterans that I talk to feel similarly.
I know that sounds harsh, especially where children are concerned, but that's my opinion.

I also can't blame people for illegally coming here to try to find a better life. However, they are here illegally & it will only get worse until we stop condoning/rewarding illegal, aka criminal, behavior.

If the government TRULY wanted to 'fix' illegal immigration, they would make their immigration procedures easier and more streamlined.
The point is, they don't WANT it easier. They don't WANT it streamlined. They DO want We the People fighting amongst ourselves over the issue. Keep us divided on issues like this and perhaps we won't see how inept they are and notice the illegal things they are doing in office.
Truth be told, regardless of their reason, regardless of their situation, regardless of their nationality, they are here ILLEGALLY. They have broken the law, therefor, they are CRIMINALS. Period. No ifs, ands or buts. They are no more an 'undocumented worker' than the drug dealer on the corner is an 'unlicensed pharmacist'.
Regardless of the source of these children, they should not be allowed to stay. They should be be given medical attention, food, shelter and then bused back home. Yes...bused. It's the cheapest and easiest way to do it.
And, if you look at some of the pictures taken of these 'kids'? They're 20something drug cartel and gang members, covered in tattoos. Not people I'd want to babysit for me.

Cyberfly wrote:If the government TRULY wanted to 'fix' illegal immigration, they would make their immigration procedures easier and more streamlined.
The point is, they don't WANT it easier. They don't WANT it streamlined. They DO want We the People fighting amongst ourselves over the issue. Keep us divided on issues like this and perhaps we won't see how inept they are and notice the illegal things they are doing in office.
Truth be told, regardless of their reason, regardless of their situation, regardless of their nationality, they are here ILLEGALLY. They have broken the law, therefor, they are CRIMINALS. Period. No ifs, ands or buts. They are no more an 'undocumented worker' than the drug dealer on the corner is an 'unlicensed pharmacist'.
Regardless of the source of these children, they should not be allowed to stay. They should be be given medical attention, food, shelter and then bused back home. Yes...bused. It's the cheapest and easiest way to do it.
And, if you look at some of the pictures taken of these 'kids'? They're 20something drug cartel and gang members, covered in tattoos. Not people I'd want to babysit for me.

All excellent points Fly!

Especially the part about the lack of desire to address the issue in order to keep Joe Citizen's eye off the real important ball. I don't care which side of the aisle these yahoos come from - they are all in it to stay in office, stay in power & keep the $$$ rolling in from their corporate sugar daddies. The more we fight each other, the easier it is for them to execute their multi-beeeeellion dollar evil plans!!!

I know may people that work for various acronyms. I know that they work very hard to do their best, however the biggest problem is their hands being tied from up top. I wish I could upload PDF files. You guys would poop your pants if you saw, what I saw coming from the southern border...

Reverend Herc wrote:I know may people that work for various acronyms. I know that they work very hard to do their best, however the biggest problem is their hands being tied from up top. I wish I could upload PDF files. You guys would poop your pants if you saw, what I saw coming from the southern border...

I have seen and did not like it. It's really frustrating when you try to do a job but are told either to leave the issue alone or to leave it for someone else to worry about or take care of.

Well said, all. I do not blame the immigrants, legal or not, for trying to get a piece of what our forefathers worked so hard for. Hell, we're practically giving it away! I blame ourselves for allowing such a situation to develop. We have no business helping others when so many of our own need that help.

For some reason, and I can't, for the life of me, figure out why, we extend rights and privileges specifically reserved for CITIZENS to NON-CITIZENS. Legal immigrants and visitors are afforded these considerations by going through the correct process and channels. Illegals, technically, don't count, yet we give them all kinds of benefits that so many actual citizens can't get even if they tried.

How much things have changed in the last decades....

In 1974, I worked at Stanford Research Institute. We wanted to hire a PhD physicist who lived in Montreal, Canada. Before he would be allowed to emigrate to the United States and allowed to work here, the US Immigration folks required SRI to prove to them that we were going to pay him sufficient money for he and his family (wife and two kids) to be self-sufficient living in Palo Alto, California and that we would guarantee his position at SRI for a minimum of three years. We did all that to prove to the Feds that the guy would not become a burden on US taxpayers. The process took more than six months to complete.

The guy was terrific and he stayed for 20 years before retiring. This fella' quickly became a US citizen and was proud of his citizenship and his adopted country. These are the types of people we want to welcome to our country. He "gave" to this country through his intelligence, vision and hard work. We don't need anymore under-educated, hand-to-mouth "takers" that only seek our nation because it is easier for them here...at our expense.

Well, these aren't "uneducated takers." Most of them are smarter than the yokels they are replacing. Think in terms of the Castro brothers of San Antonio or Rubio of Florida. The universities in South Texas are full of hard working, intelligent Latin folks.

I see people from North Carolina (I have lived in Wilmington and Raleigh) and Idaho talking in simple terms about fencing the borders. Presumably you guys have never seen the borders in Texas, nor have you traveled or lived much around the border areas nor do you travel much in Mexico.

You cannot practically build a wall because the communities on both sides of the border are intertwined. Folks wade the Rio Grande in many places to shop for groceries. Yards and farm back up to the Rio Grande. You have businesses that are on the water. And whether it's Freightliners or Navistars or Fords or Chryslers or WalMart so much of US life is dependent on Mexico - all of those things stream through our nearby border cities.

I have a suggestion to the guy in Clayton, NC. If you are that paranoid about Latin people then let's build a big, ugly wall around your house. Or your neighborhood.

For that matter if anyone else is that paranoid then they should build a rust colored steel fence around your house so that you cannot look out but then again no one would look in.

That way you'd feel safe and you wouldn't bother the rest of this country, including those of us around here in border Texas.

Instead of shredding MRAPs maybe we should bring them over here bring back all the NG and stick the NG in them. That would seal up the border fast.

panzermk2 wrote:Instead of shredding MRAPs maybe we should bring them over here bring back all the NG and stick the NG in them. That would seal up the border fast.

There is 1,969 miles of border between the USA and Mexico. 1,254 miles of that is in Texas where there is a river that varies wildly by depth and width because of the number of dams. In many places you can easily wade or throw a rock across the river. And the back yards of peoples' homes are on the river, on both sides. Literally folks cross the river regularly to shop and buy food on both sides (why are people from outside the area surprised to discover that Mexicans have boat docks, they like fishing, and own plenty of jet skis? Just like Texans?)

Have you even run the numbers on keeping people and vehicles, 24/7, all along the borders? Try it and get back to us, especially after someone does a rant about the national deficit and so forth.

Anyway, it's not worth the hassle. The new migrants will pay taxes, and the vast number of them are hard working and bright people. They will be your future customers. And out here in the south Texas oil patch most of the workers are Latin and they are your perfect demographic because they are being well paid, they all own guns, there are plenty of hunting opportunities, and local law enforcement is a joke.

Sorry been down there and we could shut it down.

Also I have to call bull<profanity> on the most are hard working crap. They are coming up for the welfare. I see it all day long in our rural town. Plus MS13 is invading our small town now.

panzermk2 wrote:Sorry been down there and we could shut it down.

Also I have to call bull<profanity> on the most are hard working crap. They are coming up for the welfare. I see it all day long in our rural town. Plus MS13 is invading our small town now.

Those kids are no more likely to join a gang than your kids are. They are fleeing from the gangs, and since the Zetas and MS13 are enemies it's pretty obvious that if they are traveling through Zeta territory and presumably protected by the Zetas that you are misinformed.

Once again, let's fence your town in. Would be simpler.

Teflon,

If I could fence my town in, I would. It would be for the better. I don't like to disagree with folks, Teflon, but I've got to do that in the case of your post.

Sure, life is tough in Equador and Guatemala and Mexico. But life is tough in many places. Chicago, Detroit, Oakland, Pittsburg...you name any big city and consider the poorer neighborhoods and life is tough. The people in those areas depend--for the most part--on my tax money to help them keep the rain off their heads, eat, watch color TV and use their ObamaPhones. If I had a voice in who gets to share my tax money, I'd have a pretty well-defined line drawn about WHO gets it. If you're capable of working you don't get any of my money. The current administration--or any of those folks nowadays--don't have a line. They just hand it out.

There was an article in the news the other day about some poor black guy in Chicago saying that he wished HE had amnesty. I don't recall the circumstances, but the thing that's holding most folks from succeeding is education. If you can't read or write, who is going to give you a decent job? No one. Those folks are pegged with menial labor. That's because their folks didn't insist that they go to school and didn't make them do their homework and get good grades. Easier to just let them hang out in 'the 'hood'. Now, if you add the now-decades-old welfare mentality, lots and lots of folks capable of working (even at menial jobs) won't do that. They'd prefer to sit and take my money.

Those folks coming across the border are not their nation's 'best and brightest'. They are from the lowest levels of their society and they've come here for "the free stuff". I'm fed up with giving away money I've worked hard for to give to those who don't want to learn or to work hard. So I say enough talk. It's time for some action. Real action, not more words.

That's my opinion.

http://www.10news.com/news/video-shows- ... e-11262013" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ddouglas wrote:Teflon,

If I could fence my town in, I would. It would be for the better. I don't like to disagree with folks, Teflon, but I've got to do that in the case of your post.

Sure, life is tough in Equador and Guatemala and Mexico. But life is tough in many places. Chicago, Detroit, Oakland, Pittsburg...you name any big city and consider the poorer neighborhoods and life is tough. The people in those areas depend--for the most part--on my tax money to help them keep the rain off their heads, eat, watch color TV and use their ObamaPhones. If I had a voice in who gets to share my tax money, I'd have a pretty well-defined line drawn about WHO gets it. If you're capable of working you don't get any of my money. The current administration--or any of those folks nowadays--don't have a line. They just hand it out.

There was an article in the news the other day about some poor black guy in Chicago saying that he wished HE had amnesty. I don't recall the circumstances, but the thing that's holding most folks from succeeding is education. If you can't read or write, who is going to give you a decent job? No one. Those folks are pegged with menial labor. That's because their folks didn't insist that they go to school and didn't make them do their homework and get good grades. Easier to just let them hang out in 'the 'hood'. Now, if you add the now-decades-old welfare mentality, lots and lots of folks capable of working (even at menial jobs) won't do that. They'd prefer to sit and take my money.

Those folks coming across the border are not their nation's 'best and brightest'. They are from the lowest levels of their society and they've come here for "the free stuff". I'm fed up with giving away money I've worked hard for to give to those who don't want to learn or to work hard. So I say enough talk. It's time for some action. Real action, not more words.

That's my opinion.

You mean Reaganphone, don't you? The free phone thing started during Reagan's administration.

Trust me, if I could get my money back from paying for two totally useless Bush wars I'd happily throw in some for humanitarian relief.

Your anecdotal comments about poor people not seeking education are entertaining and help to spread a certain conservative stereotype but the reality is that you are talking about different locations and different cultures. The universities around the Rio Grand Valley and San Antonio are full of young Latin kids.

You say the ones leaving aren't the "best and brightest" but to be honest the ones in the USA doing the most belly aching aren't our best and brightest either. If we shipped some complainers south and kept most of the kids the cumulative IQ in the USA would go up.

Reverend Herc wrote:http://www.10news.com/news/video-shows- ... e-11262013

While that's interesting, it's taken almost 9 months ago, in San Diego, and shows a land assault by (presumably) young Mexican kids. Not really the same as today, 2,600 miles away, in an area where you usually have to cross by boat, involving a large number of women and children from Honduras and other points south of Mexico.

The bottom line is that though the concept of coming to America for the OPPORTUNITY to work hard AND enjoy the fruits of your labors, the reality is that we, as a nation, have made it too easy to cross our borders by breaking our laws by rewarding that criminal activity with medicine, housing, and education. Do not blame those trying to take what we are giving away.

It is a sad testament, but true enough that many of our own would be better off leaving, burning their papers, and coming back illegally.

Our collective appetite for drugs has indeed created much of what many of these folks are fleeing. However, if it wasn't so easy and appetizing to come here, they would go elsewhere, which is kind of what most of us seem to be after. Those that follow due process are certainly welcome. Hard workers with the right intent, will follow due process, Canadian or not.

These kids seem to be coming in because their parents think there is an amnesty for them. My understanding is that is not correct, but they are entitled to a hearing where they can plead their case that they are refugees from terrorism. Obviously someone has been promoting the idea south of Mexico and I'd be surprised if it wasn't another business model for the Zetas since the kids are coming through Tamaulipus state and are obviously protected. A year ago they would have been forced into ransom and forced to smuggle drugs.

That's the current situation.

In previous years there were large numbers of Mexicans coming across. I don't know where these stories of welfare come from (women with dependent children might get welfare but I don't see how a young guy could). Most of the illegals that I have met just want to work and a surprising number of them are actually returning to the USA where they already have jobs, cars, family, etc.

Frankly, I just can't get real excited. If we would decriminalize marijuana the bottom would fall out of the cartels' current business model. As far as I am concerned let Mexicans grow dope and deliver it by the truckload to the border to pay taxes on it. Let the Border Patrol (already the biggest police force on the planet) concentrate on intercepting hard drugs. And intercepting the handful of bad guys that have managed to get here - they need to go to jail if they are wanted.

But the run of the mill Latin working guy or gal isn't a big deal. And the reality is that at the moment there aren't many Mexicans coming across now that their economy is doing well. It's folks coming in from Central America and Asia now. The border areas are 75-88% Hispanic, and Spanish is spoken as often as English here in the Eagle Ford Shale field.

Teflon, I don't have a problem with legal immigration but a country, any country has to have control of its border. Illegal immigration must be controlled. Thanks for the suggestions for my safety.

Mister Freeze wrote:The bottom line is that though the concept of coming to America for the OPPORTUNITY to work hard AND enjoy the fruits of your labors, the reality is that we, as a nation, have made it too easy to cross our borders by breaking our laws by rewarding that criminal activity with medicine, housing, and education. Do not blame those trying to take what we are giving away.

We had a Nicaraguan gal that worked for us a few years ago. She was raped in Mexico as she tried to flee north. Once she got to the USA she was in hiding for 20 years until she was able to apply for citizenship.

Considering the time frame she was quite likely a victim of the war that Reagan started with the Sandinistas.

The railroad that most migrants from Central and South America take through Mexico is called the Railroad of Death because of the large numbers of migrants that are killed trying to ride it. Ironically it is run by a subsidiary of a US company.

A few years ago you may have heard of mass killings in a little town called San Fernando that is due south of Reynosa. What was going on was that the Zetas had taken over the town and were intercepting migrants that were on the way to the US border. They took them off the buses, stole all of their property, and sent ransom demands to the families. In many cases the migrants were given a backpack full of drugs, taken to the border, and told to get the drugs across the border or else. There were two episodes of around 100 dead in each episode. In at least one incident the word was that the bus was used to drive over the victims as the most expedient way to kill that many people.

(As an aside I know that area fairly well. The main road to Victoria actually bypasses San Fernando, but there is a giant Pemex truck stop nearby where we'd stop for fuel. Also, there used to be a family restaurant where we'd stop at for T-bone breakfast steaks when passing through.)

Finally, despite all the conservative memes about welfare assistance for migrants like all of these stories coming out of Faux News they seem to be exaggerated. A family with dependent children, yes, I can see the children getting benefits. In a Christian nation we generally don't like the idea of infants starving to death. But as far as adults are concerned other than minimal levels of food stamps there isn't much in the way of benefits available for the poor or unemployed.

So basically when someone says that migrants have it "too easy" one has to wonder how hard it was for that person to get established in the USA. Or somehow do they think they are "entitled" by virtue of being born here and usually male and white?

Personally I am extremely sympathetic to the folks trying to get across. After what we have done to muck up Central and South America the least that we could do is to lend a helping hand.

Both comments deleted.
FiveseveN Forum Conduct Guidelines
7) Learn how to disagree without resorting to personal attacks. Don't get huffy if someone politely disagrees with you or if they take a different position. 'Nuff said.