Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by Ospy » 12 Jul 2011, 19:49

So are you saying without a vote it's officially law? Details please.
A liberal lady friend once argued that a lot of gun owners that are victims of a crime end up getting killed with their own weapons. That's absurd! If someone is going to kill me with my own gun, they're going to have to beat me to death with it, because it's going to be empty.

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by Esteves » 12 Jul 2011, 20:02

Civics lesson: Many laws are supported by regulations and both may be "clarified" by agency rulings and interpretations which might or might not be published at large.
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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by panzermk2 » 12 Jul 2011, 22:23

Hence all the upset about the ATF re-interpreting the sporting clause for shotguns that are imported during the last SHOT show.
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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by Grantness » 13 Jul 2011, 07:37

OK Ospy, what they are saying is that all the Trident / PFP bullets made by EA have been determined (arbitrarily and hopefully not permanently) to be armor piercing pistol rounds and subject to restriction. Any unfired Trident/PFP rounds or bullets from EA may be subject to seizure. If you had it loaded in your gun, you might could get into trouble....but something tells me they don't want any of this stuff to get argued in court. Apparantly they've classified .223, 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC as "pistol" calibers for the purposes of their actions against EA. Im no lawyer, but for the time being I would not worry about regular ammo/bullets (not EA) you have in those calibers unless they announce something more...

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by ShockedNKansas » 13 Jul 2011, 07:57

I'm sorry to hear about the ATF raid Jay. Talk about a s#!tty Monday...

This is really disheartening news. I hope that the ATF doesn't come up to the wrong person's doorstep demanding access to their ammunition. They may get the ammo but at 2600 fps.. I see a bad scenario possibly unfolding here.

Has the ATF ever confiscated ammunition from citizens (not manufacturers) after changing a regulation before? This does not sound American.

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by Ospy » 13 Jul 2011, 08:05

Finally. Thanks Grantness
A liberal lady friend once argued that a lot of gun owners that are victims of a crime end up getting killed with their own weapons. That's absurd! If someone is going to kill me with my own gun, they're going to have to beat me to death with it, because it's going to be empty.

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by ShockedNKansas » 13 Jul 2011, 08:08

I think this would be a good time to remind those that aren't yet a subscribing member of the NRA or your state gun rights association to send in the check.

This message is more for the lurkers as I am sure I am preaching to the choir in regards to the posters in this thread.

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by flyingirish04 » 13 Jul 2011, 08:12

I have been looking for examples of such confiscations, and haven't found any. I don't think they have. Too much cost to do so. If I were a betting man, I don't think they will call anyone who has purchased them. My guess is they will be focused on future sales and existing inventories. But I could be wrong.

Either way, I hope EA gets their challenge heard and it prompts a common sense response from BATFE. I know that is tough to ask from a govt agency, but one can hope. If they don't, then I hope the BATFE will answer to why they aren't going after Barnes, Magtech, corbon, et al for the same crap.
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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by VeTTeMaNC486 » 13 Jul 2011, 09:07

What a freaking load.

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by jgreenberg01 » 13 Jul 2011, 10:09

Damn, I guess I'll be switching from S5s in my spare mag to S4Ms.

I've tried to find reports of confiscations also but they don't seem to exist. Does anyone know of any reports of someone using such a round in self defense (knowingly or unknowing) and what, if any, legal consequences arose from said incident?
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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by flyingirish04 » 13 Jul 2011, 10:24

I have heard of prosecutions for people carrying SS190 in states that ban AP ammo. All misdemeanors though, and most in Florida.
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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by jgreenberg01 » 13 Jul 2011, 10:43

Thanks for the info Irish. Ugh, not good news for me... I'm gonna have to research further that when I get home tonight. Oh well, S4Ms are not bad as a second choice...
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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by tparty » 14 Jul 2011, 12:21

Esteves said:
Civics lesson: Many laws are supported by regulations and both may be "clarified" by agency rulings and interpretations which might or might not be published at large.
True, but let's be clear. The laws begat the regulations, which typically have the rule/force of law, but these are subject to challenge. As an analogy, the law will say you shouldn't speed and the regulation will say how fast you should be driving in front of a school.

That said, the regulations are subject to challenge if they overstep the legal authority granted the agency. As an example, the USEPA "determined" that they have authority to regulate greenhouse gases, and drafted regulations. Congress has stepped in and challenged this. Even after the regulations are implemented, industry groups can sue the EPA, claiming they overstepped their authority (not to mention lobbying for a law change).

Similarly, under 18 U.S.C., the BATFE is charged with regulating firearms. This doesn't give them carte blanche to implement regulations with impunity. Within the arsenal of opposition (pun intended), they can be sued for injunction. Also, if congress believes BATFE has overstepped their bounds, they can cut off funding that is earmarked for implementing this regulation (the House Appropriations committee recently voted to include a rider to the DOJ budget that restricts implementation of a new gun sales rule).

Bottom line: The regulations can be fought, but it takes a focused effort and it must be shown that the regulatory agency is overstepping its authority.

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by Grantness » 14 Jul 2011, 12:34

flyingirish04 wrote:I have been looking for examples of such confiscations, and haven't found any. I don't think they have. Too much cost to do so. If I were a betting man, I don't think they will call anyone who has purchased them. My guess is they will be focused on future sales and existing inventories. But I could be wrong.

Either way, I hope EA gets their challenge heard and it prompts a common sense response from BATFE. I know that is tough to ask from a govt agency, but one can hope. If they don't, then I hope the BATFE will answer to why they aren't going after Barnes, Magtech, corbon, et al for the same crap.
I'd say lets hope for a big media campaign to support EA...but locally in Illinois and elsewhere, I bet a large percentage of uniformed people wouldn't want such "pistol" bullets to exist or even the FsN if they knew what it was capable of.... That being said, Gov't agencies running a muck restricting ammo and bullets might have a chance at places like Fox, conservative newspapers, radio.... especially if they go for the Gov't putting small businesses out of business arbitrarily angle or raiding law-abiding citizens houses angle...

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by panzermk2wife » 14 Jul 2011, 14:33

Trust me gentlemen these are all questions and concerns we have as well as many others.

As we get more clarification as to what the hell happened and what's go in Jay will let you know.

As for me all my focus is on our children as this has effected them to degrees many will never understand.

I have my opinions on this as well, but right now I am keeping them to myself.
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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by Grantness » 14 Jul 2011, 20:08

Hang in there Lisa. All of us are behind you! :thumb:






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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by Wollychop » 15 Jul 2011, 20:08

Grantness wrote:Hang in there Lisa. All of us are behind you! :thumb:






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Is the NRA getting involved at all?

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by panzermk2wife » 15 Jul 2011, 21:50

I plead the 5th :D
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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by PainKillaX » 15 Jul 2011, 23:06

Do you have the Bill of Rights in Illinois? :p

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Re: Obama to Unveil Gun Control Reforms in Near Future

Post by Cyberfly » 15 Jul 2011, 23:25

They cut it into 4" rolls and placed it in the restroom...when Bam Bam was Senator.
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