Can the TEA Party Bring About a Pig Roast?

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Re: Can the TEA Party Bring About a Pig Roast?

Post by Prepper » 29 May 2011, 09:02

As many American Indians fighting with as against?

There were blacks in the CSA Army too.

So, if you can excuse all the atrocities committed against Native Americans by that logic, you can excuse slavery.

But, all this is getting off the point of the post, which talked about State Rights and today. As a member of the Constitution Party I believe that the Federal Government should only have those powers expressly outlined in the Constitution.
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Re: Can the TEA Party Bring About a Pig Roast?

Post by flyingirish04 » 29 May 2011, 13:06

I am saying war was full of attrocities back then on both sides. You are arguing with a past present cparative fallacy that excuses the side your feelings are with, and condemns the one you are against.

It isn't logical nor intellectually honest. Your revisionism lacks unbiased perspective.
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Re: Can the TEA Party Bring About a Pig Roast?

Post by flyingirish04 » 29 May 2011, 14:52

By the way, I do enjoy the spirited back and forth. I will add that as Memorial Day approaches, it is good that we are careful not paint either side of the Civil War as 'enemies'. "With Malice Towards None" as Lincoln said in his second inaugural address, is probably the best way to look at the Civil War. Each side had valid reasons for their fight. Many of those reasons I can see myself on either side of. What is amazing is how the country held together after, through Jim Crow, through wars, through depression. It held together because of the dedication the men that survived had to respecting the honor of those that did not.

I will end my participation on this thread, as I have said enough, with a story of one of the many great men to have served THIS country. I say this because whether right or wrong, the confederates were fighting for what were at there root, American ideals, just as the Union was as well. I do believe that.

Soon after the end of the war and reconstruction was in full swing, Lee and his family were attending St. Paul’s Episcopal Church in Richmond, Va. As was the tradition/law of the time, all the newly freed black men and women in the church were seated at the back. Their former white masters were seated in front. When it was time for the Minister to administer Holy Communion, a black man advanced to the communion rail and knelt down to receive the sacrament first. The congregation was stunned, almost about to burst with angry uproar. Usually whites received communion first. Before anything could come to crescendo though, a tall white man got up calmly and knelt beside the black man to take the Lord’s supper. Watching the scene, others both white and black followed. That white man who joined his black brother was Robert E. Lee.

Happy Memorial Day!
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Re: Can the TEA Party Bring About a Pig Roast?

Post by bobbatchelor » 31 May 2011, 16:29

President Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus along the military lines between Philadelphia and Annapolis in April: Was it used primarily as a political tool to harass and intimidate residents?

General Sherman was famously quoted that “War is Hell”. Suppression of internal dissent can prove hellish also. Maryland would prove to be the laboratory for many of President Abraham Lincoln’s more draconian policies. Lincoln early on recognized Maryland’s strategic and political importance and that Maryland could upset everything if she seceded. Washington D.C. would quickly fall upon secession and the loss of the nation’s capitol could jeopardize the entire war. A huge defeat as the war was beginning. Maryland needed to be pacified at any cost.


Lincoln knew he had little public support in Maryland The 1860 election in Maryland provided 0 electoral votes. Lincoln had to surreptitiously travel through Maryland to even reach Washington for his Inauguration. While there were pockets of pro-Union sentiment, Maryland was a Southern state and Baltimore was the epicenter of Confederate passion.

Actual violence occurred on April 19 when hordes of Confederate sympathizers clashed with Massachusetts troops at the Pratt Street Station. Lincoln acted quickly by instituting a system of arbitrary arrests and suspension of the writ of habeas corpus. Nearly any form of political dissent would be treated as treasonous. A system of military tribunals without normal constitutional protections was instituted. Warrantless arrests and indefinite prison terms were now the norm. This was done despite the fact that the Constitution is quite specific in that Article 1 Section 9 provides that only Congress can suspend the writ of habeas corpus.
Lincoln’s unconstitutional actions resulted in the famed federal case of Ex Parte Merryman whereby Chief Justice Taney rebuked Lincoln and called his actions illegal. Arrogantly, Lincoln ignored the decision and even had an arrest warrant issued for the Chief Justice. These actions served to quiet the judiciary who feared for their own liberty and that Lincoln would cause a total collapse of our constitutional system.

By suspending habeas corpus, Lincoln opened the floodgates of despotism, allowing soldiers and policemen to roam the streets and arrest anyone they didn’t like. This later included members of the Maryland General Assembly. On September 12 – 13, 51 arrests occurred when the Assembly was preparing to debate potential secession and the legislators were sent to Ft. McHenry. Lincoln had successfully destroyed the democratic process in Maryland. Among those joining the lawmakers at Ft. McHenry was the Mayor of Baltimore, the Police Chief and Marshall of Baltimore, and, on the anniversary of the writing of the Star Spangled Banner, Frank Key Howard, grandson of Francis Scott Key.

As the war continued, Lincoln added to a growing despotic bag of tricks. Nationally, press freedom was abridged by closing nearly 300 newspapers and imprisoning dissident editors. It is estimated that nearly 20000 people were imprisoned without habeas corpus protection. Elections were often rigged (including Maryland). Abuse of Southerners became commonplace. Destruction of private property and wholesale burnings of cities brought war to a whole new ghastly meaning, all with the goal of creating an atmosphere of fear and intimidation among the civilian population.

Lincoln also punished his political opposition. His chief opponent in the North, Clement Vallandigham was arbitrarily arrested and deported to the south. Van Landingham’s offense was strictly as an anti-war critic and leader of the Democratic Party opposition. During Vietnam, one wonders how many sleepless nights Lyndon Johnson lay pondering how he could control and punish his numerous anti-war critics in public, the media and in Congress. Harsh critics such as Robert Kennedy, Walter Cronkite and J. William Fulbright did no more than Vallandigham. The difference was that Johnson refused to take the harsh measures Lincoln thrived on.
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Re: Can the TEA Party Bring About a Pig Roast?

Post by Cyberfly » 31 May 2011, 20:33

Okay, so Lincoln wasn't the greatest guy in the world. I get it.
Won't argue it since I never knew the guy.
My question still is:
Can the TEA Party bring about the REAL change that people were hoping for?
Has anybody else noticed that the American people are actually hungry for the truth? I mean the real truth? Not the re-written by the victors version, but the real truth?
I've so enjoyed Glenn Beck's Founder's Fridays. Especially the Black History/Black Founding Fathers edition that he had. I had no idea that TWO men set out riding the night that Paul Revere went off to warn 'The British are coming!', much less that the other man was black.
I'm glad that he at least turned my attention to Barton's Wallbuilders site. More good info there, but it seems that the left has so many feet in the door in our schools with their revisionist history that it will take many generations to get the truth back out there.
Yet, it just seems that the American people are hungering for truth. They hunger for real justice. They hunger for simpler times again.
Maybe I put too much hope in a grassroots organization like the TEA Party organizations, but I'm hoping that the people we send WILL make the difference we were truly wanting before it becomes too late.
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Re: Can the TEA Party Bring About a Pig Roast?

Post by bobbatchelor » 01 Jun 2011, 03:39

I hope the Tea Party can bring about the change we need, but with about half of the population pays no taxes and some even get money from us even though they never paid any taxes. They are there for a handout. Most seniors either don't understand or don't care that Medicare, Medicade and Social Security are in real trouble. The Democrats are using Mediscare once again and it appears to be working. The long and short of it is WE ARE IN DEEP <profanity>.
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Re: Can the TEA Party Bring About a Pig Roast?

Post by SHEEPDOG » 01 Jun 2011, 21:12

Cyberfly wrote:Okay, so Lincoln wasn't the greatest guy in the world. I get it.
Won't argue it since I never knew the guy.
My question still is:
Can the TEA Party bring about the REAL change that people were hoping for?
Has anybody else noticed that the American people are actually hungry for the truth? I mean the real truth? Not the re-written by the victors version, but the real truth?
I've so enjoyed Glenn Beck's Founder's Fridays. Especially the Black History/Black Founding Fathers edition that he had. I had no idea that TWO men set out riding the night that Paul Revere went off to warn 'The British are coming!', much less that the other man was black.
I'm glad that he at least turned my attention to Barton's Wallbuilders site. More good info there, but it seems that the left has so many feet in the door in our schools with their revisionist history that it will take many generations to get the truth back out there.
Yet, it just seems that the American people are hungering for truth. They hunger for real justice. They hunger for simpler times again.
Maybe I put too much hope in a grassroots organization like the TEA Party organizations, but I'm hoping that the people we send WILL make the difference we were truly wanting before it becomes too late.
YES! If it is going to happen it needs to happen now. As the economy is still failing, the handouts are drying up. Fed funds are not being sent to the states. As the money tree dies, it will in power the grass root organizations.

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Re: Can the TEA Party Bring About a Pig Roast?

Post by tparty » 03 Jun 2011, 07:39

Sheepdog wrote:
YES! If it is going to happen it needs to happen now. As the economy is still failing, the handouts are drying up. Fed funds are not being sent to the states. As the money tree dies, it will in power the grass root organizations.
This is correct. This morning alone, it was reported that S&P has issued its sternest warning to date: "A possible downgrade of US debt". Simply stated, the cost to borrow and continue to fund the debt that exceeds $14T (i.e., interest cost, "minimum payment", etc.) to service the debt, would consume even more of the federal budget if the debt were downgraded.

The Tea Party has evolved into an ad hoc group that's trying to steer federal decisionmaking toward:
  • Reduced spending
    Less intrusion (remember the constitution?)
    Increased states rights (see above on the constitution)
I guess the point is that the Tea Party is kind of like a large group of the electorate that puts its support behind individual candidates, based on their positions (and record). It's probably a good thing thing that the "party" hasn't been formalized any further, since their very existence implies an "outsider" status.

Pig roast anyone?

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