Hornady 45gr HP/BEE

Post by **Rapier1772** » 07 May 2013, 21:23

My buddy said he had some 45gr bullets that were too light for his AR so I traded some 55gr FMJ.
He didn't tell me the bullets were BEEs :skep:

So before I say "Gimme my bullets back" & hand him back these, can I use them? They are pretty small. Here's a pic of them with 2 Hornady 40Gr V-Max bullets for size comparison.

If not, any recommendations for .223?

fd57 · Post by **fd57** » 08 May 2013, 04:07

Go for it. Someone indicated they experienced a feeding issue in the FSN with these, but I've cycled 50 without issue in a couple FSNs. Check out Desert Ammo Supply - they have a "Bulldog" round that utilizes this same projectile.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 08 May 2013, 08:21

Thanks, now if I can just find load info. Guess I will start with usual 45gr stuff & see where that gets me.

kmiles · Post by **kmiles** » 08 May 2013, 12:54

They do not look any shorter than the Speer TNT Green 30 gr. that I have used, so you should be ok. I have heard that people with PS90's have issues with shorter bullets, but have not had and issues with the TNT Green that I have loaded with a COL of 1.375.

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 08 May 2013, 17:56

Rapier1772 wrote:Thanks, now if I can just find load info. Guess I will start with usual 45gr stuff & see where that gets me.

I have been shooting that round with great results for about a year now with my FSN USG before I got EA's heavy duty spring. When I tested, it I maxed out with 5.7gr Ramshot True blue and CCI 400 primers. At 5.8gr I got flattening primers. At 5.9gr all primers were flattened and firing pin strikes were buttoned out. At 6.0gr I got 2 out of 10 pierced primers so I stopped and backed it back down to 5.7gr. At 5.7gr it averaged 1713fps for me. I am going to start testing it with Blue Dot and VVn105 next but it will have to what till I can find more of those bullets.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 08 May 2013, 18:18

Just found this on tactical search:

ddouglas wrote:Fumblefingers. The issue was in the 1/10/2010 issue of Handloader Magazine. Here's the link to the article: http://www.loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD ... %20LR1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. This is a members site, so you might not be able to see the article if you are not a member. I did save the article as a PDF, but I think it would be a copyright violation if I were to publish the PDF file here....

From http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9236" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will load 10 of each of those on the list if I have the powder (think I have 5 of them) & report back.

Post by **panzermk2** » 08 May 2013, 21:20

We used those for the first gen Pro3 but to many customers where having feeding issues so we switched to another JHP.

JollyRogers · Post by **JollyRogers** » 09 Jun 2013, 06:23

I ended up with 500 of these 45grn HP/BEE projectiles, by mistake TBH. If they will work for small varmit & plinking, I may as well shoot em up.

Well yesterday my friend came down to put some (~300) rounds downrange using my backstop out back... and I got to keep his brass!!! I also put 100 through my new FsN MKII

So I got some loading to do now

So has anyone used this load data for the 45grain HP/Bee http://www.loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD ... %20LR1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; with any success? I only have the AA#7 or Blue Dot as an option for powder. Curious of Rapier1772's report back, but I searched his posts and didn't find anything. Also looked for grimmond's results with blue dot, but nothing yet. I did read grantness did some loads for vvn105.

As far as feed issues. where they on the FsN or PS90, or both?

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 09 Jun 2013, 08:49

I have only been able to try AA-5, AA-7, and True Blue. Since my last post I still have not been able to get my hands on any more of the bullets. I can tell you that the load data in the article so far is pretty accurate, as long as you follow their OAL and primers. Also they say to crimp the loads but I never did. I polished and set my sizing die so that the case neck is slightly smaller so that it puts extra tension on the bullet. I see on average about 100fps faster using CCI 400 primers then what they had listed. Also my OAL is 1.450" and I trim my cases to 1.130". Since my original testing I have added the EA HD spring and have not had the chance to see what difference it will have on my loads. I never had any feeding issues out of my FSN. All of my testing at the moment is on a experimental 30gr bullet from Cutting Edge.

JollyRogers · Post by **JollyRogers** » 09 Jun 2013, 09:16

Thanks grimmond for that feedback!!! I'll use AA7 or work up some loads with blue dot since I have easy access to both now.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 15 Jun 2013, 00:42

I've finally gotten around to loading some of these up but I've ran into a problem.
The bullet seating plug is as low as it goes, the only way to get the OAL within spec is to lower the die. Now the die is causing a shoulder on the neck & I have to file the edge off in order to make it fit the go/no go gauge and chamber.

Does anyone have a solution to making the plug, or maybe the bullet, a little longer? Something that wont fall out every time & yet can be removed easily enough when no longer needed :ponder:

JollyRogers · Post by **JollyRogers** » 15 Jun 2013, 04:16

I am going to run into the same exact problem. Using the Hornady die here, and as it is with the seater, I am down to the last few threads when seating the 40grn V-MAX to 1.580. Almost picked up a set of redding dies because of this, but not sure if they are any better...

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 15 Jun 2013, 08:08

Rapier1772 wrote:I've finally gotten around to loading some of these up but I've ran into a problem.
The bullet seating plug is as low as it goes, the only way to get the OAL within spec is to lower the die. Now the die is causing a shoulder on the neck & I have to file the edge off in order to make it fit the go/no go gauge and chamber.

Does anyone have a solution to making the plug, or maybe the bullet, a little longer? Something that wont fall out every time & yet can be removed easily enough when no longer needed :ponder:

What dies are you using? I have only been using my Lee dies because they worked the best. I have not run into that problem with them. The only other solutions I can think of would be to either grind off some of the bottom of your seating die or to find a way to add to the plug.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 15 Jun 2013, 08:50

I use Lee dies & grinding off the bottom wouldn't help, it's the inside bit that needs it. I have no tools that can help with where that is.

And the adding to the plug, that's what I'm asking for - either to the plug or the bullet.
Can't be permanent though, since it works fine for my regular rounds & it's the only one I have.

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 15 Jun 2013, 09:05

That is really odd. Do you have any 55gr fmj that you could melt the lead out and trim the top off to act as a hat to make the round longer? Something else you might be able to try if the top part of your seating plug has room you might be able to sand or lathe it down in diameter so that it will go in farther. Just a thought. Lee might have a possible solution also. It could be just be a miscut plug.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 15 Jun 2013, 09:37

I was thinking about the hat thing, just not quite sure how to pull it off properly.

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 15 Jun 2013, 09:44

Something else I just thought of. Your seating pin should be some what free floating. Just remove the upper cap and add something inside to have it adjust lower. You wouldn't have to remove it for longer rounds then.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 15 Jun 2013, 11:45

There is a ball bearing on top of the seating pin but there is still a bottom limit to the plug, I'm at that limit.

Until a better solution comes along, I am just chucking up the finished cartridge in a drill & filing the burr off until it fits in the gauge. Not good for the brass but I have plenty of that :thumb:

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 19 Jun 2013, 17:39

Rapier1772 wrote:There is a ball bearing on top of the seating pin but there is is still a bottom limit to the plug, I'm at that limit.

Until a better solution comes along, I am just chucking up the finished cartridge in a drill & filing the burr off until it fits in the gauge. Not good for the brass but I have plenty of that :thumb:

How long have you had your seating die? I just got back home from being in the field with the Army and pulled mine apart. I do not have any ball bearing on top of the seating pin. My pin is 1.955" long and has a small step down in diameter to .221" starting at 1.872" which allows it to go down into the bullet opening which I believe is why I have not had that problem. I will try and take some pictures and post them for you guys.

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 19 Jun 2013, 17:56

Here is a pic of my pin.

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 19 Jun 2013, 18:05

If your pin is not stepped I could probably do it for you on my lathe.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 19 Jun 2013, 18:43

The die I have is one of the 1st dies Lee kicked out for this caliber. The seating plug looks like that, except it is only 1.7" long.

500SWfan · Post by **500SWfan** » 19 Jun 2013, 18:56

Rapier1772 wrote:The die I have is one of the 1st dies Lee kicked out for this caliber. The seating plug looks like that, except it is only 1.7" long.

Mine is the same length as grimmond's. Well, if you want to invest in a newer set, now is the time. As I noted here (http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic ... 40#p218630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), MidwayUSA just got them in stock. Lee must have just done a run of them, because Ammodepot shows 18 available now as well (http://catalog.ammodepot.com/itemdetail ... mber=90603" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

Add: and Graf & Sons (http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pro ... ctId/23847" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)...and Brownell's (http://www.brownells.com/reloading/relo ... %2028%20mm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), etc.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 29 Jun 2013, 11:44

Finally went out & tested the rounds I loaded. My truck's thermometer said it was 70F but it felt 80F - & that was at 730am :laugh:

Accurate 5 also had the best pattern (might just have been me) so it looks like that's what I will be using for the rest of these bullets.
There was some shoulder movement but not so much that I would be worried about the pressures. Primers were also ok.

I had one feeding issue, it was on the Accurate #7 loads. Gun was FsN with threaded barrel and 20lb recoil spring, did not test with a PS90.

JollyRogers · Post by **JollyRogers** » 29 Jun 2013, 17:32

Awesome Rapier1772! Thanks for posting your results. :thumb:

After I got done loading for the evening, I test fit a 45grn HP/BEE using the Hornady die and there is no issue seating the BEE to the needed depth. So looks like I will be playing with these some pretty soon.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 29 Jun 2013, 20:55

I am curious if Grimmond's shorter case length would allow me to load without worrying about filing off the bur. But if I did that then I couldn't reuse the brass for any other load besides the BEEs. Well, I "could" but then the load data would be inconsistent with my established loads. It's an idea to toy with...

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 30 Jun 2013, 08:31

I trim all of my cases to 1.130". I have not had any problems with regards to loading of different length bullets with this case length. These are some of the rounds that I load for and my OAL.
BULLET OAL
36gr Barnes HP Grenade = 1.565"
36gr EA Copper PFP = 1.580"
30gr CE HGHPA30 = 1.569"
40gr Nosler LF FB = 1.575"
40gr Hornady Zmax = 1.575"
40gr CE Raptor ESP = 1.604"
45gr HP Bee = 1.450"
45gr Barnes TSX = 1.596"
50gr Nosler BST-BT = 1.585"
50gr Horn Vmax Moly = 1.590"
53gr Barnes TSX = 1.580"
55gr Hornady FMJBT = 1.600"
55gr Nos Varmageddon = 1.600"
55gr Hornady GMX = 1.570"

fd57 · Post by **fd57** » 30 Jun 2013, 12:06

grimmond,

Between us it looks like we're loading most every 30-55gr bullet for the 5.7x28mm cartridge. LOL To your list I add;
35gr Nosler Varmint
40gr Hornady VMax
40gr Nosler Varmageddon
40gr Sierra Varminter
40gr Berger Varmint
50gr Barnes TSX
50gr Barnes TTSX
50gr Barnes Varminator
50gr Hornady GMX
50gr Nosler Ballistic Silvertip
52gr Barnes Match

JollyRogers · Post by **JollyRogers** » 30 Jun 2013, 17:42

I went with trim @1.35", COAL of 1.415", 5.9grn of Accurate #5, Win SRP. Shot a few and was happy with it, accuracy wise. Need to get a chronograph to get my FPS.

Thank you very much for sharing your load data & results!

JollyRogers · Post by **JollyRogers** » 07 Jul 2013, 09:55

Some fun with these loads

(Sorry, no crony #s, no target pictures with grouping etc. Just having fun over the weekend with friends and BBQing!)

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 07 Jul 2013, 23:09

Finally found a stash of 45gr Bee's to test and had the chance to run some tests this weekend. All were fired out of my FSN which has EA's threaded barrel w/ HD spring.

5.7gr True Blue Avg = 1816fps & SD = 11.66fps
6.0gr AA#5 Avg = 1728fps & SD = 26.25fps
6.0gr VVn105 Avg = 1678fps & SD = 14.24fps
6.0gr Blue Dot Avg = 1624fps & SD = 37.96fps

As a side note I also ran some tests with Hodgdon Lil Gun. I would strongly recommend to stay away from Lil Gun as a viable powder in this platform. It would only become viable in a bolt action platform.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 07 Jul 2013, 23:58

I didn't try 105 or BD, I think I have some though - I was hoping to run another test batch before loading up the rest maybe I'll give those a go?

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 08 Jul 2013, 16:53

I am thinking of trying some of those loads again with Rem 7 1/2 and WSR to see what difference it might make in velocities and spread. Also I will try your trim and OAL with those primers and CCI400 to see if I can match your data and see what difference the other primers will have.

tomjonesa22 · Post by **tomjonesa22** » 17 Feb 2016, 16:54

I saw a thread for the hornady bee 45 grain. I was wondering does anyone still use this bullet and if its worth to reload with?

kmiles · Post by **kmiles** » 18 Feb 2016, 06:29

That is not one that I have used. It looks like it could be a little on the short side, and the "flat" tip could cause some feeding issues. The other difficulty I see is the flat base. It can be a little challenging getting flat base bullets to feed straight into the small case of the 5.7x28. If I had a box or two sitting around I would give them a shot, but not something I would seek out to purchase to try.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 18 Feb 2016, 09:01

(Merged with the BEE thread)

I loaded them but as kmiles said, they're a bit on the short side & your dies can cause problems. I have Lee dies & I had to trim my cases more than usual & turn my die down a bit more to get them to work. Once that was properly set they worked fine & fed through the FsN with no problems - I did not try feeding it through the PS90.

Personally, I do not recommend them simply due to the extra effort & resetting of the dies involved.

Post by **Grantness** » 18 Feb 2016, 13:55

http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic ... 65292VN105" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

45gr Hornady FB HP 218 Bee bullet crimped at the cannelure w/ seating die. Trim: 1.135" OAL: 1.400" Primer: CCI 400

7.5gr: avg: 1782.75 fps (excluding the outlier)
1777fps
1724fps
1766fps
1789fps
1799fps
7.6gr: avg: 1768 fps
1777fps
1787fps
1761fps
1749fps
1770fps
7.7gr: avg: 1776.75 fps (excluding the outlier)
1718 fps
1768 fps
1766 fps
1814 fps
1759 fps
7.8gr: 1776.8 fps
1756 fps
1770 fps
1775 fps
1789 fps
1794 fps
7.9gr: avg: 1761.4 fps
1742 fps
1796 fps
1740 fps
1770 fps
1759 fps
8.0gr: avg: 1778 fps
1770 fps
1766 fps
X
1787 fps
1789 fps
8.1gr: avg: 1793 fps (excluding the outlier)
1789 fps
1814 fps
1711 fps *lost primer. following round jams*
1777 fps
1792 fps

N105 is quite the unpredictable powder! 7.5 and 7.6gr had some stiff recoil and a bit of black smoke. The recoil and smoke diminished from 7.7-7.9gr...gradually increasing up to 8.1 where I lost a primer. Back when I tried N105 w/ the 45gr BBS, I noticed that I got higher velocities at a relatively low powder charge (compared to the max) and saw the results plain off or even drop as I went higher. I chalked it up to the extreme powder compression...but now, w/ the 218 Bee bullets...I got very similar results w/o any compression at all. Also of note is that the BBS was getting at least ~100fps more velocity for the same charges.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 18 Feb 2016, 16:28

Grant! It's about time you dropped in! What have you been up to? :cya:

Post by **Grantness** » 19 Feb 2016, 06:55

Moved to Virginia. Haven't been shooting for a while... Just starting to get back into it! :guns: .

grimmond · Post by **grimmond** » 19 Feb 2016, 16:15

Grant I had the same results as you with every bullet I tried. I chalked it up to the relative burn rate and compression. Very few bullets actually scaled up like normal powders.

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