A Reliable 27gr Reload

Reloading info for the 5.7x28mm

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Wollychop
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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Wollychop » 23 Aug 2011, 08:25

Can't wait to try these out! Any timeline on availability?

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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Rifles2 » 23 Aug 2011, 09:20

We have the Reloads available today in .600", .705" and .740" as well as the Lead base in .705". We will also be conducting ballistic tests on them in the near future, so stay tuned.

I've got to test the FMJs on the range before I can offer them though. Have to prove they're good so I know you're getting a quality bullet. Should be a week or so on those.

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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Rifles2 » 25 Aug 2011, 09:54

Alas, the FMJ version has been scrapped as our legal team concluded that it meets one of the technical definitions of AP under 18 USC Section 921:

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber
designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a
weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the
projectile.

It would have been nice, but good bye to the line of DHX FMJs.

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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Wollychop » 25 Aug 2011, 10:06

Rifles2 wrote:Alas, the FMJ version has been scrapped as our legal team concluded that it meets one of the technical definitions of AP under 18 USC Section 921:

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber
designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a
weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the
projectile.

It would have been nice, but good bye to the line of DHX FMJs.
Ah well... thanks for trying!

VeTTeMaNC486
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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by VeTTeMaNC486 » 26 Aug 2011, 05:56

Rifles2 wrote:Alas, the FMJ version has been scrapped as our legal team concluded that it meets one of the technical definitions of AP under 18 USC Section 921:

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber
designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a
weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the
projectile.

It would have been nice, but good bye to the line of DHX FMJs.
But the 5.7 is .22 caliber :?:

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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Wollychop » 26 Aug 2011, 06:40

VeTTeMaNC486 wrote:
Rifles2 wrote:Alas, the FMJ version has been scrapped as our legal team concluded that it meets one of the technical definitions of AP under 18 USC Section 921:

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber
designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a
weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the
projectile.

It would have been nice, but good bye to the line of DHX FMJs.
But the 5.7 is .22 caliber :?:
Nope, it's .004 longer :p

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Hobknob
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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Hobknob » 26 Aug 2011, 07:16

Since the last digit is omitted it must be assumed to be outside the range of tolerance, thus .224 would default to .22 since it has no other defining tolerance and as such it would be rounded to the nearest significant digit.
Also, it states "larger than .22 caliber" not larger than .22, and given that the 223 (and a host of other "22's") fall under the .22 caliber designation, the conclusion must be reached that .224 is within the ".22 caliber" definition.
But then again, the ATF has never been accused of being logical or using sound judgment, so who knows what argument they would present.

Oh, and Wolly....I think you meant "wider" or "larger diameter" :p
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Wollychop
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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Wollychop » 26 Aug 2011, 08:36

Damn it!!!

VeTTeMaNC486
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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by VeTTeMaNC486 » 26 Aug 2011, 21:03

Hobknob wrote:Since the last digit is omitted it must be assumed to be outside the range of tolerance, thus .224 would default to .22 since it has no other defining tolerance and as such it would be rounded to the nearest significant digit.
Also, it states "larger than .22 caliber" not larger than .22, and given that the 223 (and a host of other "22's") fall under the .22 caliber designation, the conclusion must be reached that .224 is within the ".22 caliber" definition.
But then again, the ATF has never been accused of being logical or using sound judgment, so who knows what argument they would present.

Oh, and Wolly....I think you meant "wider" or "larger diameter" :p
This is exactly what I thought. But the ATF can and will make/twist the laws/"judgements" as they please.

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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Rifles2 » 29 Aug 2011, 08:59

Just spoke with an agent at the BATF Technology Branch in West Virginia who clarified unambiguously that they do indeed consider anything larger than .220" (and meeting the other criteria) as armor piercing.

Don't some of the bigger manufacturers make .224 bullets that meet the AP definition above? Anyone know what exception they're granted to legally produce and sell those?

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Hobknob
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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Hobknob » 29 Aug 2011, 10:35

Rifles2 wrote:Just spoke with an agent at the BATF Technology Branch in West Virginia who clarified unambiguously that they do indeed consider anything larger than .220" (and meeting the other criteria) as armor piercing.

Don't some of the bigger manufacturers make .224 bullets that meet the AP definition above? Anyone know what exception they're granted to legally produce and sell those?
Therein lies one of the main asinine (not to mention unconstitutional) issues with the ATF. Any "agent" or his boss can create or modify a definition without any oversight (short of a direct court case against the ATF) and that bit of personal opinion the agent uttered (either verbally or in writing) that was never vetted nor voted upon by congress or any other elected body somehow manages to carry the force of law with it great enough to earn a felony for violating it.
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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by panzermk2 » 29 Aug 2011, 10:40

They don't this is why we where raided the ATF is "re interpreting" the law. There is no exception.
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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Rifles2 » 29 Aug 2011, 11:29

So by that rationale, Barnes should be prohibited from selling their Banded Solid (brass) bullets since they can be loaded in the 5.7 cartridge and fired from a handgun?

http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/r ... ed-solids/

Barnes’ Banded Solids™ stop dangerous game right now! In life-threatening situations, you can depend on Banded Solids to put the largest animal down. Machined from homogenous copper/zinc alloy, these indestructible bullets won’t disintegrate or deflect on heavy bone. [italics mine]

How do they get away with this but Panzer gets a warrant served? Don't understand the difference.

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panzermk2
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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by panzermk2 » 29 Aug 2011, 13:31

Easy, I am a small company. East target and easy to get a legal precedent against fast in the ATF's favor.

Barnes, owned by Freedom Arms, has an entire law firm, Mark Barnes no relation, in DC to themselves.
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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by Wollychop » 29 Aug 2011, 14:26

Hobknob wrote:
Rifles2 wrote:Just spoke with an agent at the BATF Technology Branch in West Virginia who clarified unambiguously that they do indeed consider anything larger than .220" (and meeting the other criteria) as armor piercing.

Don't some of the bigger manufacturers make .224 bullets that meet the AP definition above? Anyone know what exception they're granted to legally produce and sell those?
Therein lies one of the main asinine (not to mention unconstitutional) issues with the ATF. Any "agent" or his boss can create or modify a definition without any oversight (short of a direct court case against the ATF) and that bit of personal opinion the agent uttered (either verbally or in writing) that was never vetted nor voted upon by congress or any other elected body somehow manages to carry the force of law with it great enough to earn a felony for violating it.
You just described the problem with EVERY regulatory agency under the executive branch.

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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by ammodude » 01 Oct 2011, 02:19

I think the 27 grain projectile is interesting, I personally would stay with the forward weight design, terminal ballistics are secondary to long range pin point accuracy for this category of projectile. Keep up the development, possibly consider a center lead shaft (core) from the base to the forward weight (make a little lead tree inside the jacket).

A thought on your topic change of legality of the presented FMJ projectile.

You must consider the manufacturers intent from the spark of development and this eight word phrase of the code "designed and intended for use in a handgun".

Now read the information/documentation presented by the manufacturer that was mentioned. Never is it presented as a projectile for a handgun, specific separation between handgun and rifle categories in fact. Consistent with their marketing I would consider that the manufacturer has no documented development, discussions or tests and employees would be "trained" to limit uncontrolled discussions, that would leave them open to prosecution for this, if they have a legal team worth fetching coffee.

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Re: A Reliable 27gr Reload

Post by bruteandbear1 » 25 Nov 2014, 08:46

what ever happened with this load? Did anybody test these?

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