Can you trust SS197?

Discuss 5.7x28mm factory ammunition
burdy
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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by burdy » 10 May 2010, 05:52

Lots of 197's down the barrel, all bought this year, 3 different places. Zero Failures of any kind.

extremist
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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by extremist » 11 May 2010, 00:24

No problems here, either -- even when with trigger pulls in rapid succession to test for jams.

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by Grantness » 11 May 2010, 06:01

Had an interesting 197 experience yesterday. I loaded up a mag of 197 and handed it to my friend to shoot. Thing jammed up every few shots. I thought maybe it was the ammo or possibly even the mag.... so I reload the mag from the same box of ammo and shoot through it as fast as I can....no jams. Hand it back to him....jams up again. Turns out he was used to 1911's and liked to use his off hand to support the gun from underneath the mag. Apparently grip can be a major contributing factor in FsN jams.

ninthinning
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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by ninthinning » 11 May 2010, 09:21

That is an interesting observation. What do you think is causing the jams?
9th
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blueorison
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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by blueorison » 11 May 2010, 12:32

Grantness wrote:Had an interesting 197 experience yesterday. I loaded up a mag of 197 and handed it to my friend to shoot. Thing jammed up every few shots. I thought maybe it was the ammo or possibly even the mag.... so I reload the mag from the same box of ammo and shoot through it as fast as I can....no jams. Hand it back to him....jams up again. Turns out he was used to 1911's and liked to use his off hand to support the gun from underneath the mag. Apparently grip can be a major contributing factor in FsN jams.
LOL.

Limp wristing, 9th. The top end of the pistol is given too much leverage to swing backwards and downwards instead of straight back. The slide doesn't fully retract to extract the round, and thus the jams.

On the range, we call this "tea-cupping"; not trying to pick on your friend, Grant, but this grip method should NEVER be used, regardless of firearm.

We call it tea cupping because the support hand mimics holding a saucer upon which you'd place your teacup.
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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by Grantness » 11 May 2010, 15:34

yea, I suggested he change it but I guess old habits are hard to break. He said something about getting bit by 1911's...I dunno :?:

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by Wollychop » 13 May 2010, 17:11

He probably had his off hand thumb on the slide and got bit, and now is scared.

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by extremist » 15 May 2010, 00:11

With some loads and hands, beavertail bite on 1911s can be almost as bad as hammer bite on Hi-Powers and the like -- similar to Kel-Tec P3AT, where the upper rear of the grip can bite even harder.

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by helodad » 16 May 2010, 11:01

I like them

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by flyingirish04 » 16 May 2010, 11:53

That could be it grant. I haven't had any problems with FN Loads recently. I just went out blasting with a buddy and went through about 500 rounds of 197 and 195 with our FsNs and my PS90. A lot of fast firing, and no issues. I will say the accuracy of the 197 and 195 is way worse than it used to be in my opinion. It was never as solid as EA's, but it was better.
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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by blueorison » 17 May 2010, 23:33

flyingirish04 wrote:That could be it grant. I haven't had any problems with FN Loads recently. I just went out blasting with a buddy and went through about 500 rounds of 197 and 195 with our FsNs and my PS90. A lot of fast firing, and no issues. I will say the accuracy of the 197 and 195 is way worse than it used to be in my opinion. It was never as solid as EA's, but it was better.
You are correct, sir. In my latest 50 ft - 50 yd tests; about 5 times in the past two weeks; accuracy has decreased per the ss197 round. This was out of my FsN. I also tested and shot a PS90 on Friday with old ss197 ammunition, and it ran fine.

Obviously it is good enough for hitting the target, but ss197 used to give me groups with all shots touching at 25 yards. I will continue testing and post results, per usual.

I chronographed the ss197 yesterday with a CED M2, and it gave consistent results of FPS around 1700. The average was 1648 fps per 10 rounds.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by Grantness » 18 May 2010, 05:46

flyingirish04 wrote:That could be it grant. I haven't had any problems with FN Loads recently. I just went out blasting with a buddy and went through about 500 rounds of 197 and 195 with our FsNs and my PS90. A lot of fast firing, and no issues. I will say the accuracy of the 197 and 195 is way worse than it used to be in my opinion. It was never as solid as EA's, but it was better.
Im sure his grip had everything to do with the jams that day, but on the day I first posted in this thread I was getting jams in just about every mag of 197 (not with the EA or reloads) too.... so I know it couldn't have been just his grip on that occasion. Couple that with the >100fps spread I got from my chronograph and I have to conclude something was up with the 197.

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by blueorison » 23 May 2010, 20:43

Update:

Going to test the accuracy of ss195 vs ss197. This is the next step in the empirical meter stick.

Will post pictures.

(Duh. hahah)

Update: left my 195 back in OK. Werps. I guess I'll just keep waitin for my S5.
Last edited by blueorison on 01 Jun 2010, 14:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by mistereveready » 01 Jun 2010, 11:31

Just came back from firing some 197's that were fresh ordered (just got in to gunshop).

only one apparently failed to feed, but that was a user error, didn't push the round into magazine. my buddy pulled the tigger and nothing happened, learned that the round wasn't situated properly.

can't vouch for aim because mine is bad and it was only 15ft, but did do rapid fire, double taps, etc, etc.

now just waiting for my ea protectors so i can get my ccw even though the 197's performed decently at range.

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by chuckw » 02 Jun 2010, 06:10

You guys have got me worried with this thread! I recently bought a whole case of 197s because the price was just too good to pass up. So far I have used 300 rounds out of the case and experienced one fail to fire. In that case the firing pin actually dented the primer but the cartridge didn't go bang. I put the cartridge back in the mag for a second go around and the second time it fired. I have not, so far, had any fail to feeds or jams of any kind.

I have no idea of how to tell if this ammo is older or newer; is there perhaps some code hidden in the bar code on the individual boxes?

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by PainKillaX » 02 Jun 2010, 07:39

If you have any concerns, send all your ammo to me, and I'll shoot it to make sure it's fine. You won't even have to pay me for my time :laugh:

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by blueorison » 02 Jun 2010, 09:00

chuckw wrote:You guys have got me worried with this thread! I recently bought a whole case of 197s because the price was just too good to pass up. So far I have used 300 rounds out of the case and experienced one fail to fire. In that case the firing pin actually dented the primer but the cartridge didn't go bang. I put the cartridge back in the mag for a second go around and the second time it fired. I have not, so far, had any fail to feeds or jams of any kind.

I have no idea of how to tell if this ammo is older or newer; is there perhaps some code hidden in the bar code on the individual boxes?
haha, don't worry about it bro. Just go blast and have fun.

most people don't care about accuracy much (pretty much all the ammo reviews I've found on barf.com don't even mention anything about accuracy at all so I'm going off this), and are more worried about reliability. ss197 has never had a ftf or fte for me and many others. I will plug EA and say that they provide an Accurizing service that increases hammer power and spring weight for harder primer hits.
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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by Grantness » 02 Jun 2010, 10:04

....dont forget the lower trigger weight which is probably one of the best things you can do to improve accuracy.

Anyone see the latest addition of Handgun (or was it Handgunner?) magazine. Typical boring gun rag review. Some gun writer gets a call from FN wanting to send him a PS90 and a FsN to play with for a couple days. He takes them to the range one or two times and then writes a definitive article on the weapons' systems like he knows a thing or two. The guy didn't even suggest the FsN's possible use as a self-defense weapon. All he talked about was how it would make a nice coyote/rabbit/squirrel buster!

When he got to the accuracy tests, he had difficulty getting the FsN to shoot tight groups w/ SS197 at (i think) ~20 yards. The biggest problem he said, was vertical stringing. My guess is his other problem was probably due to the fact that it takes more than a day at the range to acclimate to the FsN's trigger pull. If he really wanted to see what the accuracy was like he should have used a machine rest that takes the human error out of the equation.

What pissed me off in particular was that he didnt investigate the vertical stringing. I almost want to say he blamed it entirely on the gun! A simple chronograph test might have confirmed that the SS197 velocities were all over the place...

...but I guess you can't $h!t where you eat, can you?

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by chuckw » 02 Jun 2010, 15:18

Grantness wrote:....dont forget the lower trigger weight which is probably one of the best things you can do to improve accuracy.

Anyone see the latest addition of Handgun (or was it Handgunner?) magazine. Typical boring gun rag review. Some gun writer gets a call from FN wanting to send him a PS90 and a FsN to play with for a couple days. He takes them to the range one or two times and then writes a definitive article on the weapons' systems like he knows a thing or two. The guy didn't even suggest the FsN's possible use as a self-defense weapon. All he talked about was how it would make a nice coyote/rabbit/squirrel buster!

When he got to the accuracy tests, he had difficulty getting the FsN to shoot tight groups w/ SS197 at (i think) ~20 yards. The biggest problem he said, was vertical stringing. My guess is his other problem was probably due to the fact that it takes more than a day at the range to acclimate to the FsN's trigger pull. If he really wanted to see what the accuracy was like he should have used a machine rest that takes the human error out of the equation.

What pissed me off in particular was that he didnt investigate the vertical stringing. I almost want to say he blamed it entirely on the gun! A simple chronograph test might have confirmed that the SS197 velocities were all over the place...

...but I guess you can't $h!t where you eat, can you?

I read that review in Handgun or Handgunner (I don't remember which either?) while killing time at the magazine rack in the supermarket. The article was such a piece of self-aggrandizing drivel that it made me decide to not spend my money on the mag. Glad to know that I bought a nice squirrel gun!

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Re: Can you trust SS197?

Post by Mister Freeze » 03 Jun 2010, 05:42

chuckw wrote:You guys have got me worried with this thread! I recently bought a whole case of 197s because the price was just too good to pass up. So far I have used 300 rounds out of the case and experienced one fail to fire. In that case the firing pin actually dented the primer but the cartridge didn't go bang. I put the cartridge back in the mag for a second go around and the second time it fired. I have not, so far, had any fail to feeds or jams of any kind.

I have no idea of how to tell if this ammo is older or newer; is there perhaps some code hidden in the bar code on the individual boxes?

My preference for the ss197 is based on it NOT being lead-free. I'm a big fan of delivering lead poisoning! Kidding aside, I just don't get a warm fuzzy from the LF actually having an expected expiration. Arguably, EA's QuieTOR is the only thing slower than SS197... Still hoping for an FMJ plinker @2k+ fps that is not LF.

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