Removing the mag "safety"?
Moderator: blueorison
Removing the mag "safety"?
Howdy, I owned a 5.7 in 2003 and sold it in 2004 and then recently bought another one. Was out blasting with it this weekend and really enjoyed it, but don't like the fact that it has a magazine "safety" (how that makes anything safer is beyond me). Can't recall if the 2003 version had one or not.
Anybody have instructions on how to remove the mag safety for the USG?
Many thanks,
danbrew
Anybody have instructions on how to remove the mag safety for the USG?
Many thanks,
danbrew
- Esteves
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
This is a comprehensive write-up:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... stcount=49" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It takes longer to read it than it does to do it.
We probably ought to make this an FAQ.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... stcount=49" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It takes longer to read it than it does to do it.
We probably ought to make this an FAQ.
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© 2004-2019 Esteves
Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative,
and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want
people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
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© 2004-2019 Esteves
Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative,
and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want
people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
very nice, thank you.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I agree on the FAQ! One reason I don't use a FN57 as CCW. See if I can pull it off, on my next one
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Works Perfectly! Many Thanks.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Just curious,
I recently performed the modification as shown in the link.
When I went to the range I found that the pistol would no longer retain the loaded magazines in the grip frame.
I reversed the modification on the spot with the tip of a knife blade and the gun worked perfectly. I also noticed that there is a nominal amount of drag that is induced on the trigger bar by repositioning the safety bar. Not enough to make a dramatic difference in the trigger pull, but still somewhat noticable.
Any one else experience this? :ponder:
I do beleive that I did the mod correctly, as the hammer would release without a mag in place. The artwork in the forum link was good, although perhaps a good closeup JPEG picture of the gun internals on the finished mod would be a bit more helpful, should anyone want to post up.
I recently performed the modification as shown in the link.
When I went to the range I found that the pistol would no longer retain the loaded magazines in the grip frame.
I reversed the modification on the spot with the tip of a knife blade and the gun worked perfectly. I also noticed that there is a nominal amount of drag that is induced on the trigger bar by repositioning the safety bar. Not enough to make a dramatic difference in the trigger pull, but still somewhat noticable.
Any one else experience this? :ponder:
I do beleive that I did the mod correctly, as the hammer would release without a mag in place. The artwork in the forum link was good, although perhaps a good closeup JPEG picture of the gun internals on the finished mod would be a bit more helpful, should anyone want to post up.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I'm still curious if the whole bar could be removed, rather than just moving it out of the way.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
You need it to put upward preload on the trigger transfer bar, removing it will not make that happen at all.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
The 2nd pic on the forum is the finished mod...Toynut wrote:......
I do beleive that I did the mod correctly, as the hammer would release without a mag in place. The artwork in the forum link was good, although perhaps a good closeup JPEG picture of the gun internals on the finished mod would be a bit more helpful, should anyone want to post up.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
On the old forum IIRC, some people did cut off the piece just behind the tabs shown in yellow and red. This spring places downward pressure on the trigger transfer bar and locks it out. Relieving the downward pressure is how it is unlocked. I just ran a few few tests to confirm this.Toynut wrote:You need it to put upward preload on the trigger transfer bar, removing it will not make that happen at all.
The only thing I don't like about the disabling method shown in the picture is that the transfer bar rubs against the top of the "green" highlighted spring which minutely changes trigger feel. It does work though. Completely removing it at the pin retainer would not be a good option because you would have to put a spacer in its place.
Removing it will very likely void your warranty.
"How the Hell did I get here?"
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
a spacer to me would be no big deal. They would have no idea if it was removed as long as you didn't throw it away. It's not a rocket ship, it's not like they could easily tell if you fully stripped the frame.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
The picture pretty much looks like my post mod (sans pretty colors, of course).
So...
Any ideas as to why my magazines would not stay locked in place?
So...
Any ideas as to why my magazines would not stay locked in place?
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Just a guess that you have just enough wear on the mag release and contact area of the mag that is won't stay seated without the slight amount of side thrust that the magazineToynut wrote:The picture pretty much looks like my post mod (sans pretty colors, of course).
So...
Any ideas as to why my magazines would not stay locked in place?
Last edited by gw45acp on 15 Dec 2009, 19:58, edited 1 time in total.
"How the Hell did I get here?"
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
The magazines and gun are fairly new with about 500 rounds through the gun (using all three mags), so I don't think wear is an issue yet.
The magazines locked up solid with the spring bar back in it's original position. The only think I can think of is that in the modded position, the transfer bar is resting on the connecting bar creates a stacked thicker piece which causes the magazine to be offset to the left in the grip frame just enough that with a left side activated release does not let the magazine lock firmly into place. I do believe as you suggested that if I reverse the magazine release to a right side push button that the magazine will in fact be held in place just fine. Being partial to 1911s, I am not used to a right side finger release and would have to train myself to not automatically find myself pushing a flush seated button with my thumb.
The magazines locked up solid with the spring bar back in it's original position. The only think I can think of is that in the modded position, the transfer bar is resting on the connecting bar creates a stacked thicker piece which causes the magazine to be offset to the left in the grip frame just enough that with a left side activated release does not let the magazine lock firmly into place. I do believe as you suggested that if I reverse the magazine release to a right side push button that the magazine will in fact be held in place just fine. Being partial to 1911s, I am not used to a right side finger release and would have to train myself to not automatically find myself pushing a flush seated button with my thumb.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I corrected my post. I referred to the magazine release when I meant magazine safety. Sounds like you had the same analysis of the problem.
It could still be wear on the mag release or a defective mag release. I don't believe that the magazine safety is necessary to hold the magazine against the magazine release catch. You may want to remove the magazine release and inspect it to see if there is anything wrong with it.
It could still be wear on the mag release or a defective mag release. I don't believe that the magazine safety is necessary to hold the magazine against the magazine release catch. You may want to remove the magazine release and inspect it to see if there is anything wrong with it.
"How the Hell did I get here?"
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I redid the mod the other day. I had to tweak the tip of the load bar a bit upward with some curved needle nose pliers.
This time the magazine locks in place as long as I give them a very firm shove to fully seat it (firmer than the unmodified gun, at least).
The release catch then engages the slot in the magazine housing with a click (not much clearance/slop). I am sure it will loosen up a bit as some break in occurs.
Problem solved.
Thanks guys.
This time the magazine locks in place as long as I give them a very firm shove to fully seat it (firmer than the unmodified gun, at least).
The release catch then engages the slot in the magazine housing with a click (not much clearance/slop). I am sure it will loosen up a bit as some break in occurs.
Problem solved.
Thanks guys.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I haven't taken the chance to check this out the last time I whent shooting, but if u shoot your last round without the magazine in, does the slide lock back to help u reload after firing, or does it set forward makeing u rack again after adding the next mag? :ponder:
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
The mag safety should have nothing to do with the slide locking back. As the mechanisms for each are on opposite sides of the weapons.
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I was defending the FsN in another forum, and we started discussing mag safetys. I'm Vinny701 btw:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vinny701
I have yet to understand why a gun should be inoperable without the magazine in it, perhaps someone here knows of a logical reason.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ONE reason: If you know you are in the process of being disarmed & can manage to drop the mag, your assailant will not have a functional weapon.
my reply:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean this with the utmost respect
If I am being disarmed by an assailant, then didn't I do something VERY wrong? A mag disconnect works the other way too, If the assailant drops my mag, then I have a club, and he has whatever weapon he brought .
And, another persons responss to me again.
"Yeah, I'm not a cop, and don't have police training and all that, but I just don't see the utility of a mag disconnect. I would think that if I'm in a situation bad enough that the pressing of a switch is warranted, it's going to be the boom button."
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Vinny701
I have yet to understand why a gun should be inoperable without the magazine in it, perhaps someone here knows of a logical reason.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ONE reason: If you know you are in the process of being disarmed & can manage to drop the mag, your assailant will not have a functional weapon.
my reply:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I mean this with the utmost respect
If I am being disarmed by an assailant, then didn't I do something VERY wrong? A mag disconnect works the other way too, If the assailant drops my mag, then I have a club, and he has whatever weapon he brought .
And, another persons responss to me again.
"Yeah, I'm not a cop, and don't have police training and all that, but I just don't see the utility of a mag disconnect. I would think that if I'm in a situation bad enough that the pressing of a switch is warranted, it's going to be the boom button."
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I just disassembled mine to take a look at this again. I know exactly where and how to do what's shown on Calguns but I noticed this--
"cycle the slide; engage the safety and pull the trigger - if your striker falls at this point, something was done wrong and you should have your pistol checked by a professional gunsmith immediately"
What would make this happen? If it did, would it be possible to reverse without a gunsmith? I would like to do this to my pistol but I don't want to chance something going wrong, as I do not have the money for a gunsmith and I imagine some people would be upset if I broke my new thousand dollar pistol
"cycle the slide; engage the safety and pull the trigger - if your striker falls at this point, something was done wrong and you should have your pistol checked by a professional gunsmith immediately"
What would make this happen? If it did, would it be possible to reverse without a gunsmith? I would like to do this to my pistol but I don't want to chance something going wrong, as I do not have the money for a gunsmith and I imagine some people would be upset if I broke my new thousand dollar pistol
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
First of all, there is no striker. This is a hammer operated pistol. Second of all, I don't know how doing this mod might prevent the hammer from falling.
I did have an issue once when I removed the hammer group and when I put it back in a spring wasn't set correctly and the hammer wouldn't fall because something wasn't engaging. But I don't think that moving the bar is going to cause something like this... I might be wrong though, it is has been a while since I've looked at the internals closely.
I did have an issue once when I removed the hammer group and when I put it back in a spring wasn't set correctly and the hammer wouldn't fall because something wasn't engaging. But I don't think that moving the bar is going to cause something like this... I might be wrong though, it is has been a while since I've looked at the internals closely.
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Okay thanks, I pulled that directly from the guide, wanted to clear it up.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
It was just my personal opinion and observations based on my memory of the workings of the pistol, so take it with a grain of salt
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Make sure that the hammer is "cocked" before you put the harmer group back on the frame, that will help to keep the sear lever in proper alignment, also make sure that the sear spring is pressed firm against the back of the frame.PainKillaX wrote:I just disassembled mine to take a look at this again. I know exactly where and how to do what's shown on Calguns but I noticed this--
"cycle the slide; engage the safety and pull the trigger - if your striker falls at this point, something was done wrong and you should have your pistol checked by a professional gunsmith immediately"
What would make this happen? If it did, would it be possible to reverse without a gunsmith? I would like to do this to my pistol but I don't want to chance something going wrong, as I do not have the money for a gunsmith and I imagine some people would be upset if I broke my new thousand dollar pistol
That should save you a trip to gunsmith.
Hope that would help you.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I figured out the problem with the mag not seating!
I did the mod incorrectly the first time, and had this problem.
If you pried up the spring bar and moved the transfer bar up so the hook on the end of the transfer bar rides on top of the spring bar...you did it wrong. While this does provide upward pressure on the transfer bar and defeats the magazine safety, the magazines will not seat this way. Instead you have to pry the spring bar out far enough to lift it past the small square platic tab, and ride on top of the square tab. This way the spring bar pushes up against the main body of the transfer bar, not against the hook on the end of it. It will now be out of the way and magazines will seat. The gun works perfectly.
I don't notice a difference in the trigger pull, as the magazine would be pusing up on it in the original configuration anyway. Does this make sense?
I did the mod incorrectly the first time, and had this problem.
If you pried up the spring bar and moved the transfer bar up so the hook on the end of the transfer bar rides on top of the spring bar...you did it wrong. While this does provide upward pressure on the transfer bar and defeats the magazine safety, the magazines will not seat this way. Instead you have to pry the spring bar out far enough to lift it past the small square platic tab, and ride on top of the square tab. This way the spring bar pushes up against the main body of the transfer bar, not against the hook on the end of it. It will now be out of the way and magazines will seat. The gun works perfectly.
I don't notice a difference in the trigger pull, as the magazine would be pusing up on it in the original configuration anyway. Does this make sense?
Last edited by High-Gear on 18 Jan 2010, 22:35, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Makes sense to me.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Yep, it does. Removal of the mag safety is only making the trigger pull smoother(partialy), not lighter.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
If you smooth out a firing pin safety/fp safety lifter contact, than you should see more tangible improovement. And you can get away with just taking the slide of the frame. It won't help over all trg. weight, but, the scretchy take up should improove.
Hope you can understend through my ever slight fench excent :laugh:
Hope you can understend through my ever slight fench excent :laugh:
- glock10mmman
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Wow that was easy!!!!
I found it eaiser to pry and move the bar from the bottom of the mag well instead from the top.
I found it eaiser to pry and move the bar from the bottom of the mag well instead from the top.
When all else fails......Vote from a rooftop
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Thanks for the good info everyone. I'm anxious to make this mod when I get the right tools.. I fricken hate the "mag safety".
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Yep, worked like a charm. Thanks again.
Disabling the magazine disconnect safety?
I hate these things, is it possible to disable it on a Five Seven?
Preferably in a reversible manner.
I looked up “Magazine safety”, and “magazine disconnect” “magazine disconnecter” and had no hits.
Preferably in a reversible manner.
I looked up “Magazine safety”, and “magazine disconnect” “magazine disconnecter” and had no hits.
- jgreenberg01
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Re: Disabling the magazine disconnect safety?
You didn't look hard enough...57360 wrote:I hate these things, is it possible to disable it on a Five Seven?
Preferably in a reversible manner.
I looked up “Magazine safety”, and “magazine disconnect” “magazine disconnecter” and had no hits.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5972&p=88304&hilit ... ety#p88304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
0100001101101111011011010110010100100000011000010110111001100100001000000111010001100001011010110110010100100000011010010111010000101110
Re: Disabling the magazine disconnect safety?
You can actually take the whole bar out according to one write up
- bobapunk
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Re: Disabling the magazine disconnect safety?
It takes about 10 seconds to disable it, and it is totally reversible.
Re: Disabling the magazine disconnect safety?
It’s because I only searched titles only. :facepalm:jgreenberg01 wrote:You didn't look hard enough...57360 wrote:I hate these things, is it possible to disable it on a Five Seven?
Preferably in a reversible manner.
I looked up “Magazine safety”, and “magazine disconnect” “magazine disconnecter” and had no hits.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5972&p=88304&hilit ... ety#p88304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
thanks for the link.
Last edited by 57360 on 13 Nov 2010, 14:26, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Disabling the magazine disconnect safety?
satellitedr3ams wrote:this would void the warranty.Buffman wrote:You can actually take the whole bar out according to one write up
so is doing a whole bunch of other stuff. Does FNH have a camera in the gun, that knows you removed it? You can easily take it out, and if the need ever arises, put it back in.
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Re: Disabling the magazine disconnect safety?
i sent my FsN back in and after i dropped it off at UPS remembered i didnt undo it and put it back the way it was...when FsN sent it back, they "fixed" it and didnt say a word.
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Re: Disabling the magazine disconnect safety?
First post and wow all i can say is thanks. I just moved up from a bersa thunder 9uc which does not have a mag safety and this guide was great. As the previous poster stated it took less time to disengage than to read the walk-through. Took about 2 secs and works perfectly. Thanks for the info!
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Re: Disabling the magazine disconnect safety?
I have a question and would like to understand what a magazine diconnect saftey is and why would you disable it.
- Davidlee
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Re: Disabling the magazine disconnect safety?
Never mind I pulled up the link and it explained the whole thing and this is something I will do.
- Esteves
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I merged the two threads and "stickied" it.
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© 2004-2019 Esteves
Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative,
and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want
people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
S
© 2004-2019 Esteves
Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative,
and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want
people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
i've had my 5.7 a few weeks. did'nt give much care about the mag safety ! then at the defensive course im in we were practicing tactical reloads. just when every one cleared the first mag the instructor blew the stop whistle at that point he instructed every one that another threat had just came into the seen and needed action right now fire without inserting full mag! me and 2 others could not fire! i had the only 5.7. the mod will be performed asap! thanks for the info. i did not know this would be possible!
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
- tactical reloads should be performed (if possible) with cover. Secondly a pistol is not a one shot stopper. The .55 seconds you used to shot one single round will be negated by still needing reload and then Re-engage the threat. That's extra movement. IMO and it's just my .02 once you make the choice to reload then follow through asap. A reload can be done supper quick. You can won prActice learn to send a round down range with pretty good accuracy from the reload position as your driving out for number 2 or 3 shots.
----
Technically has anybody thought of this- grind/smooth in an angle on the trigger disconnect bar and the trigger bar so that it still functions as a disconnect but with very little pressure effecting trigger pull?
Strike that. Has anybody measured what downward pressure is applied in the factory set up? Install magazine and fashion a hook to do a measured pull over the required distance upward.
I'd hope that fnh engineers designed the set up to only need fraction of pressure once the magazine was inserted. So the only real reason to remove the bar is if you personAlly don't agree with having such device. I don't see it as good or bad.
I've polished both contAct points and left it in place. I might polish of a minute amount to ever slightly decrease pressure to improve trigger creep.
----
Technically has anybody thought of this- grind/smooth in an angle on the trigger disconnect bar and the trigger bar so that it still functions as a disconnect but with very little pressure effecting trigger pull?
Strike that. Has anybody measured what downward pressure is applied in the factory set up? Install magazine and fashion a hook to do a measured pull over the required distance upward.
I'd hope that fnh engineers designed the set up to only need fraction of pressure once the magazine was inserted. So the only real reason to remove the bar is if you personAlly don't agree with having such device. I don't see it as good or bad.
I've polished both contAct points and left it in place. I might polish of a minute amount to ever slightly decrease pressure to improve trigger creep.
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
haha, Ryker, you must be an IDPA guy.ryker wrote:- tactical reloads should be performed (if possible) with cover. Secondly a pistol is not a one shot stopper. The .55 seconds you used to shot one single round will be negated by still needing reload and then Re-engage the threat. That's extra movement. IMO and it's just my .02 once you make the choice to reload then follow through asap. A reload can be done supper quick. You can won prActice learn to send a round down range with pretty good accuracy from the reload position as your driving out for number 2 or 3 shots.
----
Technically has anybody thought of this- grind/smooth in an angle on the trigger disconnect bar and the trigger bar so that it still functions as a disconnect but with very little pressure effecting trigger pull?
Strike that. Has anybody measured what downward pressure is applied in the factory set up? Install magazine and fashion a hook to do a measured pull over the required distance upward.
I'd hope that fnh engineers designed the set up to only need fraction of pressure once the magazine was inserted. So the only real reason to remove the bar is if you personAlly don't agree with having such device. I don't see it as good or bad.
I've polished both contAct points and left it in place. I might polish of a minute amount to ever slightly decrease pressure to improve trigger creep.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
No IPDA. But I know what your getting at. The rule book - which is why I said "if possible". The advantage of the fiveseven is the high round count. A usp45 guy would need a tac reload if down to 10round shot and 3 left in the magazine--- we would still have 11 rounds and not need to tac reload.. We can be smarter about when/if we even need to and when to tactical reload.
A 1911 guy would be down to his last round or two and need to make the choice to tactical reload 3 times before a fiveseven was forced to reload. Which point a 1911 guy with three magazines is empty "315 dispatch.... Be advised I am out of ammo and need backup code 10" lol
A 1911 guy would be down to his last round or two and need to make the choice to tactical reload 3 times before a fiveseven was forced to reload. Which point a 1911 guy with three magazines is empty "315 dispatch.... Be advised I am out of ammo and need backup code 10" lol
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
What is... IPDA?
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Typo - iPhone keypad
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Let me explain it to you.danbrew wrote:Howdy, I owned a 5.7 in 2003 and sold it in 2004 and then recently bought another one. Was out blasting with it this weekend and really enjoyed it, but don't like the fact that it has a magazine "safety" (how that makes anything safer is beyond me).
Most accidents with auto pistols occur when someone removes the mag and forgets to (or otherwise doesn't) clear the chamber. With a magazine safety, such accidents are IMPOSSIBLE, thereby removing the #1 single cause of accidents in auto pistols.
Lord only knows how many thousands of ND's that magazine safeties have prevented over the years.
There are no statistics of course, since such accidents never occurred at all.
I am a big believer in mag safeties, manual safeties, and loaded chamber indicators.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Valorius,Valorius wrote:Let me explain it to you.danbrew wrote:Howdy, I owned a 5.7 in 2003 and sold it in 2004 and then recently bought another one. Was out blasting with it this weekend and really enjoyed it, but don't like the fact that it has a magazine "safety" (how that makes anything safer is beyond me).
Most accidents with auto pistols occur when someone removes the mag and forgets to (or otherwise doesn't) clear the chamber. With a magazine safety, such accidents are IMPOSSIBLE, thereby removing the #1 single cause of accidents in auto pistols.
Lord only knows how many thousands of ND's that magazine safeties have prevented over the years.
There are no statistics of course, since such accidents never occurred at all.
I am a big believer in mag safeties, manual safeties, and loaded chamber indicators.
Good explanation. You're the first one in this thread to state how it may actually help someone from preventing a tragedy. But for the FSN owners who want a better trigger pull, and can be responsible enough to perform a "chamber check" visually after dropping the mag, this is a good option.
Its just like in Blackhawk Down, where the one soldier shows his index finger when asked about his weapon's safety All the bells and whistles cannot replace good firearm discipline/ manual safety checks.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Quite true. I was merely explaining the rationale behind the device.
- Rapier1772
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I am a big disbeliever in safeties & such. They are mechanical devices & will fail if you depend on them. While I have not personally seen safeties fail, I did have a gun that was recalled because of it failing with other people. I never trusted safeties so I didn't send mine in. I have seen loaded chamber indicators fail. I'm with coris on this one - YOU are the safety, never forget that.Valorius wrote:I am a big believer in mag safeties, manual safeties, and loaded chamber indicators.
I understand the rationale, I just don't buy into it.
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I'm going out on a limb here and guess you are not a big fan of 1911's carried cocked and locked. :ponder:Valorius wrote:Let me explain it to you.danbrew wrote:Howdy, I owned a 5.7 in 2003 and sold it in 2004 and then recently bought another one. Was out blasting with it this weekend and really enjoyed it, but don't like the fact that it has a magazine "safety" (how that makes anything safer is beyond me).
Most accidents with auto pistols occur when someone removes the mag and forgets to (or otherwise doesn't) clear the chamber. With a magazine safety, such accidents are IMPOSSIBLE, thereby removing the #1 single cause of accidents in auto pistols.
Lord only knows how many thousands of ND's that magazine safeties have prevented over the years.
There are no statistics of course, since such accidents never occurred at all.
I am a big believer in mag safeties, manual safeties, and loaded chamber indicators.
- blueorison
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
The more you depend on your equipment to be safe for you, the more you let it drive you. The reality is it should be the other way around.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
- panzermk2
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
FYI we can leave the mag safety in when we do the accurizing on your gun. We have refined it to the point the safety has no affect on trigger pull or feel. So we now give you the option of leaving it in place.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
Pr. Elite Ammunition
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Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I have no problems with 1911's or cocked and locked. I have owned and carried many of them over the years. All cocked and locked.swe123 wrote:I'm going out on a limb here and guess you are not a big fan of 1911's carried cocked and locked. :ponder:Valorius wrote:Let me explain it to you.danbrew wrote:Howdy, I owned a 5.7 in 2003 and sold it in 2004 and then recently bought another one. Was out blasting with it this weekend and really enjoyed it, but don't like the fact that it has a magazine "safety" (how that makes anything safer is beyond me).
Most accidents with auto pistols occur when someone removes the mag and forgets to (or otherwise doesn't) clear the chamber. With a magazine safety, such accidents are IMPOSSIBLE, thereby removing the #1 single cause of accidents in auto pistols.
Lord only knows how many thousands of ND's that magazine safeties have prevented over the years.
There are no statistics of course, since such accidents never occurred at all.
I am a big believer in mag safeties, manual safeties, and loaded chamber indicators.
I am not a fan of glocks and other pistols with a short relatively light trigger and no manual safeties though.
But the real world reality is that it is NOT the other way around. Let's face it, most people are morons and can use all the safeties they can get...blueorison wrote:The more you depend on your equipment to be safe for you, the more you let it drive you. The reality is it should be the other way around.
If people didn't make mistakes and have accidents cars wouldn't need seatbelts, airbags, etc. Table saws and saber saws wouldn't need guards to cut prevent themselves from cutting off their hands either...
But reality is, human beings make mistakes. Lots of mistakes. Guns are just machines, and like all machines, they can bite you in a moment of carelessness. Hard.
Well, to play devil's advocate:Rapier1772 wrote:I am a big disbeliever in safeties & such. They are mechanical devices & will fail if you depend on them. While I have not personally seen safeties fail, I did have a gun that was recalled because of it failing with other people. I never trusted safeties so I didn't send mine in. I have seen loaded chamber indicators fail. I'm with coris on this one - YOU are the safety, never forget that.Valorius wrote:I am a big believer in mag safeties, manual safeties, and loaded chamber indicators.
I understand the rationale, I just don't buy into it.
Virtually every single weapons system in the US military from the M9 sidearm to an ICBM has manual safeties, and most systems have multiple safeties. The only projectile weapons in the military without a manual safety are the M11 pistol and some old revolvers, but even they all have passive safeties.
As an ex infantryman and ex NCO who has trained many US soldiers to shoot, i can say i have never seen a safety mechanically fail and prevent a weapon from discharging. I'm sure it's possible, but the odds are far, far higher that the user will screw up and would otherwise ND but be stopped from doing so by the safety devices installed on the system, than a safety device failing and rendering a weapon inoperable.
Even US pilots with millions of dollars in training and multiple redundant safeties manage to have ND's sometimes. If an elite fighter pilot can accidentally strafe a school in NJ with 20mm cannon fire or accidentally drop a bomb when he doesn't mean to, it goes to follow that joe blow average can too.
For anyone that doesn't like a manual safety on their weapon, it is very easy to simply not employ the safety. All weapons have some manner of safety that can theoretically fail, even a simple double action revolver has a transfer bar safety. A device that has probably, over the years, prevented thousands upon thousands of NDs from ever occurring at all. I would no more remove a magazine safety than i would remove a transfer bar safety from a revolver, or the "safe action" trigger safety from a glock.
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Apples to oranges.
Comparing an airbag in a car to a mag safety; is the same as saying that negligent discharge will cause the gun to magically put up a barrier of armor to protect from the bullet strike.
If you truly wish to compare a car to a pistol in terms of magazine safety, then cars would have a built in chip that automatically cause them to stop at all red lights and no matter what, they could not run that red light. It would prevent them from engaging the "drive" function. This would prevent people dependent on mechanical safeties from being illogical and driving through a red light, thus killing themselves.
As of yet, there is no chip in our cars to do so. We're supposed to have the common sense to check the light, if it says "green for go" or "red for stop". That way we don't kill ourselves by driving into cross-travelling traffic.
Just as we are supposed to check each and every gun we pick up, if it is loaded, if we are pointing it at an object we wish to fire upon, and if we wish to fire at that object at that moment in time.
Blue out.
Comparing an airbag in a car to a mag safety; is the same as saying that negligent discharge will cause the gun to magically put up a barrier of armor to protect from the bullet strike.
If you truly wish to compare a car to a pistol in terms of magazine safety, then cars would have a built in chip that automatically cause them to stop at all red lights and no matter what, they could not run that red light. It would prevent them from engaging the "drive" function. This would prevent people dependent on mechanical safeties from being illogical and driving through a red light, thus killing themselves.
As of yet, there is no chip in our cars to do so. We're supposed to have the common sense to check the light, if it says "green for go" or "red for stop". That way we don't kill ourselves by driving into cross-travelling traffic.
Just as we are supposed to check each and every gun we pick up, if it is loaded, if we are pointing it at an object we wish to fire upon, and if we wish to fire at that object at that moment in time.
Blue out.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
- Rapier1772
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I'm betting on applesblueorison wrote:Apples to oranges.
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Contrary to popular belief, you CAN fix stupid - it's just illegal.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Well our cars do have manual lockouts that prevent us from putting the car in gear without our foot on the brake.blueorison wrote:Apples to oranges.
Comparing an airbag in a car to a mag safety; is the same as saying that negligent discharge will cause the gun to magically put up a barrier of armor to protect from the bullet strike.
If you truly wish to compare a car to a pistol in terms of magazine safety, then cars would have a built in chip that automatically cause them to stop at all red lights and no matter what, they could not run that red light. It would prevent them from engaging the "drive" function. This would prevent people dependent on mechanical safeties from being illogical and driving through a red light, thus killing themselves.
As of yet, there is no chip in our cars to do so. We're supposed to have the common sense to check the light, if it says "green for go" or "red for stop". That way we don't kill ourselves by driving into cross-travelling traffic.
Just as we are supposed to check each and every gun we pick up, if it is loaded, if we are pointing it at an object we wish to fire upon, and if we wish to fire at that object at that moment in time.
Blue out.
Should be common sense to make sure your foot is on the brake before you put the car in "D", but sadly, many idiots maimed and killed many innocent victims because they didn't put their foot on the brake before putting the car in "D".
This is why all automatic trans equipped cars now require your foot to be on the brake before engaging a drive gear.
That's a direct apple to apple comparison, i think.
Blue: Great pic!
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Rapier posted that pic, not me :p
Good comparison. I think I'll exit the discussion with "do what works for you!"
Good comparison. I think I'll exit the discussion with "do what works for you!"
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Hi I'm new on the forum.
This was the first thing I did when I got this gun. I moved the bar from between the pillar like on ynoty3k's pics. Then I removed the pin above the trigger and completely removed the mag disconnect bar. Replace the pin and your set! No problem after 1000 rounds with anything. The trigger feels a lot better IMHO.
This was the first thing I did when I got this gun. I moved the bar from between the pillar like on ynoty3k's pics. Then I removed the pin above the trigger and completely removed the mag disconnect bar. Replace the pin and your set! No problem after 1000 rounds with anything. The trigger feels a lot better IMHO.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I removed it because none of my pistols have a mag safety.
It was extra effort to seat a loaded magazine, and I'd read that the stock trigger feel was improved by it's removal.
Call me crazy, but I don't carry all the time, and when I do, I carry with an empty chamber, and full mag.
Just train to always draw, work the slide, and fire on the target.
I did carry cocked and locked for awhile, but it was always a nagging reminder that the pistol was only a safety click away from going off. Anyone would be able to drop the safety and shoot the pistol. Not everyone would think to work the slide and chamber a round before trying to shoot the pistol.
The .5 second I lose to work the slide is worth the peace of mind knowing my pistols can not just go off by pulling the trigger. (Especially on the Glock/Striker fired weapons with trigger safeties.)
It was extra effort to seat a loaded magazine, and I'd read that the stock trigger feel was improved by it's removal.
Call me crazy, but I don't carry all the time, and when I do, I carry with an empty chamber, and full mag.
Just train to always draw, work the slide, and fire on the target.
I did carry cocked and locked for awhile, but it was always a nagging reminder that the pistol was only a safety click away from going off. Anyone would be able to drop the safety and shoot the pistol. Not everyone would think to work the slide and chamber a round before trying to shoot the pistol.
The .5 second I lose to work the slide is worth the peace of mind knowing my pistols can not just go off by pulling the trigger. (Especially on the Glock/Striker fired weapons with trigger safeties.)
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Don't agree with you, but I very much appreciate your reasoning. Solid post and thanks for sharing. You're on the money; it would only take .5 seconds when done correctly, to chamber that round. That is if you have both hands...and conditions were pretty much perfect... :thumb:Adjuster wrote:I removed it because none of my pistols have a mag safety.
It was extra effort to seat a loaded magazine, and I'd read that the stock trigger feel was improved by it's removal.
Call me crazy, but I don't carry all the time, and when I do, I carry with an empty chamber, and full mag.
Just train to always draw, work the slide, and fire on the target.
I did carry cocked and locked for awhile, but it was always a nagging reminder that the pistol was only a safety click away from going off. Anyone would be able to drop the safety and shoot the pistol. Not everyone would think to work the slide and chamber a round before trying to shoot the pistol.
The .5 second I lose to work the slide is worth the peace of mind knowing my pistols can not just go off by pulling the trigger. (Especially on the Glock/Striker fired weapons with trigger safeties.)
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
On my PT99, with the manual safety that also locked the slide in place, and the ability to carry "half cocked" with the hammer off the pin, but not fully back, so you had to pull the trigger more than you do single action, but not a full DA pull, I carried locked and loaded on that pistol. (And do still when I use it.)
With the striker type, where you have a round in the chamber, and the striker is held back ready to fire by the sear, and the pin safety plunger, it bugged me to not have a manual safety, and way to keep the hammer/striker locked in place. (Yes, I understand the pin can't move unless the plunger is depressed by the trigger bar, same with my M&P9, and most striker fired weapons.)
ON the FSN, It's cocked and locked with an internal hammer, again pin safety plunger and the manual safety.
I get it that the round can not be fired unless I pull the trigger, after I move the safety. (Just like the PT99 other than the DA ability.)
Perhaps I will revise my carry routine with this FSN, and the PT99 v/s the striker fired pistols I have. I also see now that S&W is offering the M&P9 with a manual safety. (I would have gone that route if it was possible when I purchased that pistol.)
Just curious, but how many of you guys carry with 21 in the gun? And does anyone else carry with an empty chamber on their striker fired weapons where the only "safety" is the trigger design?
It's how Plexico and many others who use trigger safety, striker fired weapons have shot themselves over the years. Touch the trigger, and you get shot, as there is no manual safety to catch the error when there is a round in the chamber.
I think one more factor is "Glock" style actions where people have done trigger work, yet still carry the weapon. I have done the full trigger job to my M&P, and it's no longer gritty, or heavy, but it's nearly too light for carry. The trigger is about 4lbs now, and very short, nearly no take up, and reset is short, so you can double tap the pistol very easy, at will on target. (More recoil than the FSN, but it's a 9mm, so not like trying to stay on target with a .45.) As I have it setup, I'm comfortable at the range, but not really for carry, so I leave the chamber empty on that pistol when I carry.
With the striker type, where you have a round in the chamber, and the striker is held back ready to fire by the sear, and the pin safety plunger, it bugged me to not have a manual safety, and way to keep the hammer/striker locked in place. (Yes, I understand the pin can't move unless the plunger is depressed by the trigger bar, same with my M&P9, and most striker fired weapons.)
ON the FSN, It's cocked and locked with an internal hammer, again pin safety plunger and the manual safety.
I get it that the round can not be fired unless I pull the trigger, after I move the safety. (Just like the PT99 other than the DA ability.)
Perhaps I will revise my carry routine with this FSN, and the PT99 v/s the striker fired pistols I have. I also see now that S&W is offering the M&P9 with a manual safety. (I would have gone that route if it was possible when I purchased that pistol.)
Just curious, but how many of you guys carry with 21 in the gun? And does anyone else carry with an empty chamber on their striker fired weapons where the only "safety" is the trigger design?
It's how Plexico and many others who use trigger safety, striker fired weapons have shot themselves over the years. Touch the trigger, and you get shot, as there is no manual safety to catch the error when there is a round in the chamber.
I think one more factor is "Glock" style actions where people have done trigger work, yet still carry the weapon. I have done the full trigger job to my M&P, and it's no longer gritty, or heavy, but it's nearly too light for carry. The trigger is about 4lbs now, and very short, nearly no take up, and reset is short, so you can double tap the pistol very easy, at will on target. (More recoil than the FSN, but it's a 9mm, so not like trying to stay on target with a .45.) As I have it setup, I'm comfortable at the range, but not really for carry, so I leave the chamber empty on that pistol when I carry.
- blueorison
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
This carry issue has been covered many times.
Do what is best for you, and what works for you. It's your life and your choice to carry.
Glocks don't have safeties. That little protrusion of the trigger is not a safety at all. If anything contacts it and pulls on the trigger it will go off. I have no clue why they thought such a system as the "Glock trigger" would pass as the primary mechanical safety, although it did. Glock triggers have been documented before and recently to have been easily defeated when accidentally contacted by clothing or holsters, causing actual accidental discharges. AD's are a very rare occurrence, as usually only ND's occur because of idiots.
There are 1st hand articles written all over the web by their owners and the recipients of rounds through legs, arms, and feet because of ND's from Glocks and glock-type trigger safeties. The most recent one I have read was that of it contacting the flexible leather holster. The owner was not hurt.
With the FsN you have a very accessible and rapid safety selector. You can carry with the safety on and hammer cocked, round chambered.
There is no issue here, so there really shouldn't be a discussion on whether it is unsafe or not. Just like 1911's, the FsN can be carried cocked and locked.
LE carries with a live chamber. This is just an unrelated factoid. If I am carrying I will carry cocked and locked for SA.
Applying my knowledge of the FsN, it is important to remember:
1. Time rules all in a reactive SD situation. Accuracy is not relevant if you're already dead.
2. Slide spring is heavy. If you only have one arm free, do not count on racking it on your belt or table quickly enough.
3. Compare the length of slide pull from the FsN vs. a 9mm or .45, then relate the time difference.
4. Add the time it takes to rack the slide and chamber the round
5. Add the time it takes to disengage the safety
6. Add the relative complexity of both tasks and your ability to complete both and then acquire a rapid sight picture and engage the target
7. Realize reality and old school thinking do not always align with each other
8. Practice point shooting from holster, and realize your prep time, draw time, and add it to the times above
9. Practice more, you will never be prepared enough.
10. Practice speed and accuracy balance drills for when you actually have time in an SD situation to align your sights
My first shot from a concealable holster is less than one second at 25 feet on a 11 inch steel target repeatedly. I would go for something around one second; by 1.5 you are dead in a worst case scenario. You will want to practice as this distance, such that your ability will be effective at closer distances. Train for 300%. Not 100%, not 150%, not 200%. In the actual situation your ability will drop drastically.
If you train at the distance and size of target you think you'll be defending against, forget surviving. The distance of 25 feet and hits on the 11 inch COM target gives me effective ability on a 10 foot distance, man-sized target in an actual SD scenario when adrenaline and biology takes over.
Lastly, you can carry your manly big bore gun all you want, but if it's too heavy and you have no skill to take out the threat, all that self-assurance of your masculine caliber won't survive in the real world, and neither will you. Gun-store and weekend range talk is big when no one is shooting at you.
Do what is best for you, and what works for you. It's your life and your choice to carry.
Glocks don't have safeties. That little protrusion of the trigger is not a safety at all. If anything contacts it and pulls on the trigger it will go off. I have no clue why they thought such a system as the "Glock trigger" would pass as the primary mechanical safety, although it did. Glock triggers have been documented before and recently to have been easily defeated when accidentally contacted by clothing or holsters, causing actual accidental discharges. AD's are a very rare occurrence, as usually only ND's occur because of idiots.
There are 1st hand articles written all over the web by their owners and the recipients of rounds through legs, arms, and feet because of ND's from Glocks and glock-type trigger safeties. The most recent one I have read was that of it contacting the flexible leather holster. The owner was not hurt.
With the FsN you have a very accessible and rapid safety selector. You can carry with the safety on and hammer cocked, round chambered.
There is no issue here, so there really shouldn't be a discussion on whether it is unsafe or not. Just like 1911's, the FsN can be carried cocked and locked.
LE carries with a live chamber. This is just an unrelated factoid. If I am carrying I will carry cocked and locked for SA.
Applying my knowledge of the FsN, it is important to remember:
1. Time rules all in a reactive SD situation. Accuracy is not relevant if you're already dead.
2. Slide spring is heavy. If you only have one arm free, do not count on racking it on your belt or table quickly enough.
3. Compare the length of slide pull from the FsN vs. a 9mm or .45, then relate the time difference.
4. Add the time it takes to rack the slide and chamber the round
5. Add the time it takes to disengage the safety
6. Add the relative complexity of both tasks and your ability to complete both and then acquire a rapid sight picture and engage the target
7. Realize reality and old school thinking do not always align with each other
8. Practice point shooting from holster, and realize your prep time, draw time, and add it to the times above
9. Practice more, you will never be prepared enough.
10. Practice speed and accuracy balance drills for when you actually have time in an SD situation to align your sights
My first shot from a concealable holster is less than one second at 25 feet on a 11 inch steel target repeatedly. I would go for something around one second; by 1.5 you are dead in a worst case scenario. You will want to practice as this distance, such that your ability will be effective at closer distances. Train for 300%. Not 100%, not 150%, not 200%. In the actual situation your ability will drop drastically.
If you train at the distance and size of target you think you'll be defending against, forget surviving. The distance of 25 feet and hits on the 11 inch COM target gives me effective ability on a 10 foot distance, man-sized target in an actual SD scenario when adrenaline and biology takes over.
Lastly, you can carry your manly big bore gun all you want, but if it's too heavy and you have no skill to take out the threat, all that self-assurance of your masculine caliber won't survive in the real world, and neither will you. Gun-store and weekend range talk is big when no one is shooting at you.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
With the manual safety on my PT99, I did carry 1/2 cocked, and locked. (Can pull the hammer back off the pin, and it locks there, so your first pull is a slightly shorter DA, then SA for the rest of the magazine.)
With the M&P9, like the Glocks, it is a striker fired weapon, and as you note, if you pull the trigger, it goes bang. If you do a trigger job, it goes bang smoother, and often with less force needed.
Thus my choice with that weapon to carry with an empty chamber.
Now with the FSN, I'm considering my options, and I like that it has a manual safety. I feel fine with a loaded weapon, with a safety that prevents pulling the trigger, and even better, will not let the pin move untill the trigger is pulled.
The new M&P's with the manual safety tick me off, since it was not offered when I bought mine a few years back. Trading up to that is expensive, but I can cut off the right side, and still use my Crimson Trace grip on the pistol. More likely, I'm going to just carry the FSN from now on, it's lighter, has more ammo in it with a single mag, and like the 9mm, the recoil is very easy to control, so shooting multiple times is a reality.
I like this discussion, and sorry about it being something you guys have gone over before, but I appreciate the views, and the advice.
With the M&P9, like the Glocks, it is a striker fired weapon, and as you note, if you pull the trigger, it goes bang. If you do a trigger job, it goes bang smoother, and often with less force needed.
Thus my choice with that weapon to carry with an empty chamber.
Now with the FSN, I'm considering my options, and I like that it has a manual safety. I feel fine with a loaded weapon, with a safety that prevents pulling the trigger, and even better, will not let the pin move untill the trigger is pulled.
The new M&P's with the manual safety tick me off, since it was not offered when I bought mine a few years back. Trading up to that is expensive, but I can cut off the right side, and still use my Crimson Trace grip on the pistol. More likely, I'm going to just carry the FSN from now on, it's lighter, has more ammo in it with a single mag, and like the 9mm, the recoil is very easy to control, so shooting multiple times is a reality.
I like this discussion, and sorry about it being something you guys have gone over before, but I appreciate the views, and the advice.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
This guide is really good, but in following it I bent the green "tension bar" inward into the frame. I had my local gunsmith remove the bar altogether after that, since I decided to stop digging my grave Again, this guide is great just be delicate when bending the tension bar.Esteves wrote:This is a comprehensive write-up:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... stcount=49" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It takes longer to read it than it does to do it.
We probably ought to make this an FAQ.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Only recently bought my Five-seveN and I already like it. I just used the link to disable the mag safety, it was the only feature that I wasn't crazy about, and it worked perfectly. I'm not real sure what some of the older posts were talking about the new positioning causing more friction and a different feel to the trigger, it does feel different whether the bar is in its proper place or the modified one with the slide off, once you reassemble the weapon there is added friction in either configurations (I tried both repeatedly after reading some complaints and paranoia of damaging my brand new and fairly expensive gun. Thanks for helping me correct the fault I had with this weapon system.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
What is the difference in the trigger feel with the disconnect removed? Does it reduce pull weight?
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
If you are wanting your gun to shoot with out a mag in place, it's an easy fix.
Remove the rear site from right to left, take the plunger and spring out of the left side, reinstall the rear sight and you are done.
Be sure that you remove the parts from the left side, the similar parts on the right side are part of the firing pin safety system and you want to leave them in place. Be warned that the rear sight is going to be in there fairly tight, so use a sight pusher if you can.
Do not remove anything from the frame itself, ie: disconnector!
If you have access to a parts diagram familiarize yourself with the parts mentioned before you begin, simple job.
Remove the rear site from right to left, take the plunger and spring out of the left side, reinstall the rear sight and you are done.
Be sure that you remove the parts from the left side, the similar parts on the right side are part of the firing pin safety system and you want to leave them in place. Be warned that the rear sight is going to be in there fairly tight, so use a sight pusher if you can.
Do not remove anything from the frame itself, ie: disconnector!
If you have access to a parts diagram familiarize yourself with the parts mentioned before you begin, simple job.
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I would not recommend this in anyway. Removing the firing pin block is very unsafe.
Jay Wolf
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I concur.panzermk2 wrote:I would not recommend this in anyway. Removing the firing pin block is very unsafe.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
So I am a newbie. So I may not be as good at this "gun stuff" as many of you. I have recently been practicing with my new 57 and have cleaned it several times. I would like to know EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH LEAVING THE FIREARM ALONE AND THE WAY IT CAME WITH THE MAG SAFETY? I have not found any creditable reason, at least for me loading, firing and cleaning the weapon, to fool with a factory firearm and maybe voiding a warranty. Just asking and interested in a creditable reason that I can say something like "OK that makes sense--I never thought of that"
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I hit the "like" button.satellitedr3ams wrote:Rosie, there is no problem with leaving it alone... but I would like to know EXACTLY WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH REMOVING THE MAG SAFETY, AND WHY SHOULD I LEAVE IT ALONE?
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Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I always appreciated the fact that if I did not know the reason for something, asking the question will give you an answer. I can remember many times when I would ask about something and was surprised by the number of people who were happy I asked the question because they were too timid or scared to ask. My question, particularly lwith respect to the last two replies, still has no answer but returns my question with wasted space and time. I am sorry if my capitalizing my question has caused some angst but that was not my purpose--I genuinely wanted to know the reason. My assumption is that it is more a "convenience thing" wherein the mechanics of the firearm cannot be fully tested without an inserted magazine and, if your magazines have ammunition in them, you must unload a mag and insert same in firearm if you want to test out the mechanics of the firearm. If that is all there is to this, fine. Just asking and was not expecting a silly retort to my question.
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Benefits to removing the mag safety:
A) It lightens up the trigger pull a little.
B) You can still shoot a bad guy if your mag drops for any reason and you have one in the pipe.
C) It's easily reversible. If you're concerned about it becoming a warranty issue, return it to the original position before sending the gun to FN for repair.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with leaving the mag release safety in place. File this under the "whatever floats your boat" category.
Hopefully that answers the question.
A) It lightens up the trigger pull a little.
B) You can still shoot a bad guy if your mag drops for any reason and you have one in the pipe.
C) It's easily reversible. If you're concerned about it becoming a warranty issue, return it to the original position before sending the gun to FN for repair.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with leaving the mag release safety in place. File this under the "whatever floats your boat" category.
Hopefully that answers the question.
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Thank you jgreenberg for your reply. That is all I wanted to know without all the garbage that preceded it.
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
The biggest failure I see at combat style matches and this goes way back to my IPSC/IDPA days in the late 80's early 90's is magazines NOT seated all the way and or coming loose while the gun was being fired.
Normally not an issue with 1911's but as I saw in IDPA more stock carry guns. A great number of these where Hi Powers and S&W autos. These auto's have mag safeties also. Many times shooters came to an instant halt when their guns stopped firing. Sometimes the mag would not drop out all the way so there where seconds wasted by the shooter fumbling around to figure out why his gun stopped going bang.
The more time I spend shooting the more intolerant of mag safeties I have become.
Normally not an issue with 1911's but as I saw in IDPA more stock carry guns. A great number of these where Hi Powers and S&W autos. These auto's have mag safeties also. Many times shooters came to an instant halt when their guns stopped firing. Sometimes the mag would not drop out all the way so there where seconds wasted by the shooter fumbling around to figure out why his gun stopped going bang.
The more time I spend shooting the more intolerant of mag safeties I have become.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Thank you for putting up with them.rosie wrote:Thank you jgreenberg for your reply. That is all I wanted to know without all the garbage that preceded it.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Been shooting Glocks for a long time, just bought FsN, shot it at the range for the first time this past week. I had been wondering why no trigger pull without mag inserted. I like to practice dry fire. Found this thread and just made the change.
Great forum!
Great forum!
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I performed this mod to my new Five-seveN tonight. Thanks!
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I also just performed this change to my FsN. I followed the guide and just moved the mag safety above the block opting not to remove it all the way.
I did notice that my magazine goes in easier, but seems to have some wobble or play at the bottom of it.. almost like it was not seated all the way.. Anyone else experience this
I did notice that my magazine goes in easier, but seems to have some wobble or play at the bottom of it.. almost like it was not seated all the way.. Anyone else experience this
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Just bought my new FiveseveN a couple days ago and LOVE IT! Came across this post on this forum. Performed the mod and POOF! Works like a charm! Thank you all!
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Scared me because I JUST made this change to my new FiveseveN! So I went back and checked it out and I'm happy to report, that mine is a snug fit with no play when the mag is installed Hope your issue gets resolved with your FN...KaosOveride wrote:I also just performed this change to my FsN. I followed the guide and just moved the mag safety above the block opting not to remove it all the way.
I did notice that my magazine goes in easier, but seems to have some wobble or play at the bottom of it.. almost like it was not seated all the way.. Anyone else experience this
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Completely removed the pin from mine...anyone else done this with any problems? Buffman?
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Jeffbethandkidz wrote:Completely removed the pin from mine...anyone else done this with any problems? Buffman?
Pin?????
Jay Wolf
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I'm sorry, I ment the magazine safety bar. I completely removed mine instead of flexing it up like shown in this thread. i am wondering if anyone else has removed theirs and if they have experienced any negative side effects.
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Ok so I read through this whole thread on disabling the mag safety. I thought maybe performing the mod had some value, so I pulled out my brand new never fired 5.7 that cost me $1350.00 with tax. It was more difficult to get the bar away from the plastic to move it up than anticipated, but I finally got it. I reassembled the gun and yep the mag had a little more wobble at the bottom than it did before, not a big deal. The magazine must get tension from that bar when in the factory position causing the mag to "wedge" in. I did not notice any difference in the trigger pull as others had stated. Not sure why there would be a trigger pull difference since the magazine pushes the bar up taking tension off the trigger piece. I decided to move the bar back to the factory position because it is another safety feature that may save me from a bad mistake. What I did notice from this exersize was that I had no lube on the surfaces that make contact for that component. Overall observation was that this mod really only achieves disabling the mag safety and doesn't have any other benefits for ME. :ponder: :ponder:
ps. I really hope this gun and round performs like others have said because $1350. is a LOT for this mostly plastic gun
ps. I really hope this gun and round performs like others have said because $1350. is a LOT for this mostly plastic gun
- Rapier1772
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Just to clarify, you disabled the mag safety by moving it instead of actually removing it?
I am not a gunsmith but IF that is the case, then I would suggest that is why you didn't feel any difference. But that's just my uneducated opinion
I am not a gunsmith but IF that is the case, then I would suggest that is why you didn't feel any difference. But that's just my uneducated opinion
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
You are correct Rapier. I just moved the bar up like the instructions identified. Good point. if it was removed that may relieve some drag that is happening towards the front of the gun where the piece is pinned in. I just need to get out and shoot it before I get to carried away!!!
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
WarMachine wrote:Ok so I read through this whole thread on disabling the mag safety. I thought maybe performing the mod had some value, so I pulled out my brand new never fired 5.7 that cost me $1350.00 with tax. It was more difficult to get the bar away from the plastic to move it up than anticipated, but I finally got it. I reassembled the gun and yep the mag had a little more wobble at the bottom than it did before, not a big deal. The magazine must get tension from that bar when in the factory position causing the mag to "wedge" in. I did not notice any difference in the trigger pull as others had stated. Not sure why there would be a trigger pull difference since the magazine pushes the bar up taking tension off the trigger piece. I decided to move the bar back to the factory position because it is another safety feature that may save me from a bad mistake. What I did notice from this exersize was that I had no lube on the surfaces that make contact for that component. Overall observation was that this mod really only achieves disabling the mag safety and doesn't have any other benefits for ME. :ponder: :ponder:
ps. I really hope this gun and round performs like others have said because $1350. is a LOT for this mostly plastic gun
You might want to watch this video.
Elite Ammunition FsN Accurizing, Product Overview and Coffee Chat
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
OK that video confirmed the "mag tension" observation and he stated they are able to get a 3lbs trigger pull with the mag safety in place. What I don't get from the video is, why every gun he was handling had the mag safety disabled... http://www.fivesevenforum.com/posting.p ... =15&t=5972" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;#
- panzermk2
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Because I think they are stupid. One of the number one reasons firearms fail in matches and on the street is the fact the that the magazine has not been seated all the way or the button has been bumped into. The mag may drop out but at least the gun will go bang one time instead of nothing happening will a BG kills you.WarMachine wrote:OK that video confirmed the "mag tension" observation and he stated they are able to get a 3lbs trigger pull with the mag safety in place. What I don't get from the video is, why every gun he was handling had the mag safety disabled... http://www.fivesevenforum.com/posting.p ... =15&t=5972" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;#
Magazine disconnects like that are a European thing and are very popular over there.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Shooting any type of match is a royal pain in the rear end if your gun has a mag safety for 2 reasons: A- mag safeties rub on the mag and can cause the mag to NOT drop free. This creates wasted time striping the mag on reloads; and B- "If you are done, show clear. Gun is clear, hammer down and holster" is a ROYAL pain if you have to insert a mag, drop the hammer, eject mag, and then holster...
- Rapier1772
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
I wondered about this when I shot an IDPA match but since none of mine have one, I forgot to ask :laugh:bobapunk wrote:B- "If you are done, show clear. Gun is clear, hammer down and holster" is a ROYAL pain if you have to insert a mag, drop the hammer, eject mag, and then holster...
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Dah! So it was you in that video panzermk2 ... And you are owner/GS at Elite Ammo?
- Rapier1772
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Yup, he's the owner/vice-president.WarMachine wrote:Dah! So it was you in that video panzermk2 ... And you are owner/GS at Elite Ammo?
(His wife is actual president of EA no matter who has what title officially)
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Yeah, it can be done; but, the process is cumbersome and the whole squad will look at you funny...Rapier1772 wrote:I wondered about this when I shot an IDPA match but since none of mine have one, I forgot to ask :laugh:bobapunk wrote:B- "If you are done, show clear. Gun is clear, hammer down and holster" is a ROYAL pain if you have to insert a mag, drop the hammer, eject mag, and then holster...
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Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Shot a match with Blue and disabled that safety after the second stage. Been that way ever since. Tried it once before but thought that it made the trigger drag a litle, but I don't notice it now.
Re: Removing the mag "safety"?
Couldn't you cut the very tip off that engages the transfer bar, there-by disabling the mag safety, but retaining the downward tension on the mag?
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