EA S4M and T6B First Impressions

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Toaster
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EA S4M and T6B First Impressions

Post by Toaster » 22 Jun 2016, 12:46

Just got my first bit of EA ammo and thought I would share some thoughts.

All the boxes came sealed, the S4M in a 50 rnd plastic box, the T6B in a 25 rnd cardboard box.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

S4M: Moly Coated Aluminum Core HP Cartridge 28gr

Pros:
Detented primer at 6 points, presumably to hold higher pressures**
Bullet Moly Coating
Little to no case scratching from bullet pulling

Cons:
Plastic box was too large, rounds shake and damage each other
Some bullet coating was scraped off from adjacent rounds

Suggestions:
Use smaller, OE dimension box to prevent movement or newer 25rnd cardboard box

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

T6B: Segmented Copper Bullet 28gr

Pros:
Bullet Design is very intriguing, boat tail-esque, segmented, sharp tip
Bullet Anodized
Box holds rounds safely

Cons:
Brass scratched from pulling bullets
No detents on the primer as compared to the S4M
Box is excessively large for the small amount of bullets (~4 times OE box size with half the cartridges)

Suggestions:
Bring back the detents, unless it has negative consequences
A smaller box, or larger capacity would be a good idea, OE boxes keep the bullets safe.

Image
(T6B Left, S4M Right)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Questions for EA:
1. Can higher pressures/fps be achieved with the primer detents?

Image
(S4M Left, T6B Right)

2. Is there any plans for a tracer round for the 5.7? It would be fitting for the large capacity these mags carry, and high accuracy they produce. (I just heard from another member, that "Illuminator" was a thing previously before my time here. Will we see them again?)

3. Will there be full boat-tail design?

4. Further plans with the segmented bullet design?
Info: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

5. Can a heavier bullet be used on the subsonics to maintain high energy while keeping the speed down?

6. Have you encountered any issues with rapid firing either round, or feed problems when using a staggered magazine?

7. Do you plan on increasing production quantities seeing as how much the demands exceed the supply. (Company growth?) Price could go down and availability to go up, resulting in more sales and larger margins, and help solidify your company in the market.


Notes:
I would like to add pictures if anyone would recommend a hosting site or a way upload to this site directly.
Edit: a Member helped me out, haven't used photobucket in years.. Thanks

Also looking to send in my FiveseveN for the Accurizing procedure, along with the spring, trigger, night sights, and threaded barrel, I'll give you a call soon, or you contact me anytime.
Keep it up with the Subsonic rounds, that is very cool, and will be purchasing some when/if I can get the barrel and suppressor,

Looking forward to the E-Blast function and the Coffee talks, got to the end of the videos and started watching Beer reviews and Aikido,

Thanks
Last edited by Toaster on 22 Jun 2016, 22:03, edited 7 times in total.

blizzardscout2
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Location: Snohomish, WA

Re: EA S4M and T6B First Impressions

Post by blizzardscout2 » 22 Jun 2016, 13:05

Those are all excellent questions, thanks for your review. I look forward to EA getting back to you. Have you fired either of them yet?

Toaster
Junior Member
Posts: 51
Joined: 09 Jun 2016, 20:06

Re: EA S4M and T6B First Impressions

Post by Toaster » 22 Jun 2016, 15:04

I have not had an opportunity to fire off either of them so far.

I do not have a chronograph, so my observations would be Fire/Not Fire in which case its a rather expensive test for little result, although I have been planning to test on a pork shoulder and other media for penetrative abilities. I also am unable to test the long term reliability, such as repeated rapid fire tests, or staggered mags due to limited resources, both in ammo, and funds. Things that may happen in the heat of the moment.

The initial purchase was in order to obtain some of this novel/high power ammunition. With only 2 or 3 over the counter options to chose from in this size, I quickly became interested in custom ammunition and various reloading techniques. I plan to carry this ammo on my side, rather than the less optimal SS197, or 198.

With the unknown obstacles I may encounter, and large magazine capacity, I had hoped to run a mix of the two types for whatever scenario arises. Now, I know this is usually frowned upon in magazine fed guns, less so in revolvers, but I had thought perhaps the shouldered cartridge might negate some of the feeding issues commonly spoken about when discussing staggered mags.

Hopefully, he will be able to clear up some of this due to his familiarity with the product and I look forward to any developments in this field.

blizzardscout2
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Location: Snohomish, WA

Re: EA S4M and T6B First Impressions

Post by blizzardscout2 » 22 Jun 2016, 21:33

Oh I am definitely interested in these over the SS197 or AE. I am in the market for the Five-Seven for home defense and I like the ballistics of these. They are pretty expensive, so firing them off just to check them out would be an expensive endeavor. I always feel that way when I fire off my carry HPs for my carry. I never had considered staggered mags. Like loading a HD shotgun?

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panzermk2
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Re: EA S4M and T6B First Impressions

Post by panzermk2 » 23 Jun 2016, 09:05

OK
Hopefully I don't miss anything.


Questions for EA:
1. Can higher pressures/fps be achieved with the primer detents?

If you mean primer crimping? It is a requirement for Mil Spec ammo to have crimped primers. This has to do with full auto actions, how they cycle and keeping primers from popping out. Crimped primers can but NOT always mean that the round can handle higher pressure.




2. Is there any plans for a tracer round for the 5.7? It would be fitting for the large capacity these mags carry, and high accuracy they produce. (I just heard from another member, that "Illuminator" was a thing previously before my time here. Will we see them again?)


No. For awhile we offered them using mil surp plastic disk sealed 55gr immediate igniting tracers. Those are pretty much all gone and if you can find them the compound has broken down and 1 out 10 will light. There are new/mil surp but they are 62gr since the military has switched over to heavier bullets. There are after market 55gr tracers but they are from the Armscor, have a copper disk sealer and are designed to ignite AFTER 100 yards.


3. Will there be full boat-tail design?

Of what? Both the T6B and S4M are boatail.


4. Further plans with the segmented bullet design?
Info: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


No since I have arrived at the best overall version, so good vangaurd is stealing the design and having an old contractor of ours GS Bullets illegally manufacture them.


5. Can a heavier bullet be used on the subsonics to maintain high energy while keeping the speed down?

50gr is perfect otherwise stability issues including baffle strikes occur.



6. Have you encountered any issues with rapid firing either round, or feed problems when using a staggered magazine?


HUH? all 5.7 mags are staggered. P90's have no issues with our ammo.



7. Do you plan on increasing production quantities seeing as how much the demands exceed the supply. (Company growth?) Price could go down and availability to go up, resulting in more sales and larger margins, and help solidify your company in the market.


You do know the limiting factor has been no commercial source for brass? Also that we have spent the last 2 years and a Millions dollars invested into making our own in house EA brass with internal improvements using this press? Brass that is entering production stream now?



Image




Notes:
I would like to add pictures if anyone would recommend a hosting site or a way upload to this site directly.
Edit: a Member helped me out, haven't used photobucket in years.. Thanks

Also looking to send in my FiveseveN for the Accurizing procedure, along with the spring, trigger, night sights, and threaded barrel, I'll give you a call soon, or you contact me anytime.
Keep it up with the Subsonic rounds, that is very cool, and will be purchasing some when/if I can get the barrel and suppressor,

Looking forward to the E-Blast function and the Coffee talks, got to the end of the videos and started watching Beer reviews and Aikido,

Thanks[/quote]
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"

Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
Image

Toaster
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Posts: 51
Joined: 09 Jun 2016, 20:06

Re: EA S4M and T6B First Impressions

Post by Toaster » 23 Jun 2016, 11:26

panzermk2 wrote:OK
Hopefully I don't miss anything.

:thumb:

Questions for EA:
1. Can higher pressures/fps be achieved with the primer detents?

If you mean primer crimping? It is a requirement for Mil Spec ammo to have crimped primers. This has to do with full auto actions, how they cycle and keeping primers from popping out. Crimped primers can but NOT always mean that the round can handle higher pressure.


I'm a mechanic, wrong lingo, but I'll remember it. We use it to keep bearings from walking out when loaded back and forth.
Image

Good to know. Looked more resilient, and I understand how each process repeated several thousand times can add up quick. It looked like a good idea to me.


2. Is there any plans for a tracer round for the 5.7? It would be fitting for the large capacity these mags carry, and high accuracy they produce. (I just heard from another member, that "Illuminator" was a thing previously before my time here. Will we see them again?)


No. For awhile we offered them using mil surp plastic disk sealed 55gr immediate igniting tracers. Those are pretty much all gone and if you can find them the compound has broken down and 1 out 10 will light. There are new/mil surp but they are 62gr since the military has switched over to heavier bullets. There are after market 55gr tracers but they are from the Armscor, have a copper disk sealer and are designed to ignite AFTER 100 yards.


Bummer, any plans for a custom design? Seems like it could be a worthwhile endeavor. Haven't lost hope, yet.

3. Will there be full boat-tail design?

Of what? Both the T6B and S4M are boatail.


Didn't realize the S4M was, good to know. Hadn't seen it outside the case yet, I looked it up and found some better pics.

4. Further plans with the segmented bullet design?
Info: http://iaaforum.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16450" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


No since I have arrived at the best overall version, so good vangaurd is stealing the design and having an old contractor of ours GS Bullets illegally manufacture them.


Don't worry, we know yours is best. ;) I was just curious. Keep yours in production for a good while longer.


5. Can a heavier bullet be used on the subsonics to maintain high energy while keeping the speed down?

50gr is perfect otherwise stability issues including baffle strikes occur.


Ouch, thats no good. Glad you've tested it, again, curiosity.


6. Have you encountered any issues with rapid firing either round, or feed problems when using a staggered magazine?


HUH? all 5.7 mags are staggered. P90's have no issues with our ammo.


Perhaps staggered was the wrong term. I meant like S4M/T6B/S4M/T6B loading. As well as rapid fire the hotter EA ammo.

7. Do you plan on increasing production quantities seeing as how much the demands exceed the supply. (Company growth?) Price could go down and availability to go up, resulting in more sales and larger margins, and help solidify your company in the market.


You do know the limiting factor has been no commercial source for brass? Also that we have spent the last 2 years and a Millions dollars invested into making our own in house EA brass with internal improvements using this press? Brass that is entering production stream now?


I did not know that the brass itself was the limiting factor, but that you were just a small operation. However I did know that it was less than optimal and have been keeping up with the Brass news. I've heard comparisons with the 300 AAC and hope to see a similar journey for you. I'm really happy and wish you the best of luck, I'll be making an order here shortly.
Thanks for your time.

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panzermk2
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Re: EA S4M and T6B First Impressions

Post by panzermk2 » 24 Jun 2016, 05:22

You are welcome,

AH YES I do stagger normally S4M and T6B. In my Hi Power I stagger XTP and 100gr FMJ rounds.


On the tracers, for fun and need years ago I had been looking into making our own tracers. Even back then getting quality plastic disk 55gr tracers was an issue. I figured we could mix in different metals to get different colors just like fireworks.

Then I found out the binding compound used for tracers was about as deadly as a carcinogenic as there is. Talking bunny suit sealed manufacturing. I don't know if it's changed but one of these days I plan on looking into it more when I have time.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition

"Engineers, the oompa-loompas of science!"

Be'ein Tachbulot Yipol Am Veteshua Berov Yoetz
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