FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Discuss the FN Five-seveN line of pistols and accessories.

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by drinksabit » 31 Mar 2011, 20:29

2ndAMVa wrote:To the original poster...Mozambique Drill!
The FN 5.7 is ideal for doing the Mozambique Drill.
+1
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 31 Mar 2011, 21:41

From 20 feet you can triple tap into someone's head.
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Robar » 01 Apr 2011, 01:45

blueorison wrote:From 20 feet you can triple tap into someone's head.
That should do it.

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by grew » 01 Apr 2011, 11:12

Time for my rant. I went to the public range today because my Private club wont' let me shoot Five Seven indoors. Had a blast shooting my PS90 and Five Seven and at the end when I was packing up this guy and his wife come over to me and he says "Is that a PS90 I saw you shooting?" So of course I get mildly excited as they are rare in The Socialist Republic of Massachusetts. As soon as I am about to start telling him about it he follows up with "too bad the ammo has no stopping power" so I calmly take a deep breath and explain to him that there are non-lame rounds made by a certain manufacturer in Illinois. He basically stars going off about bullet weight being the be all end all of ballistics and then says the most ridiculous line. "I train in only one system and I train hard". By then I took an even bigger breath, and said "I shoot for fun and there is nothing more fun than the five seven platform in my opinion". I was so pissed but didn't want to start in on him about it. Not more than 2 minutes earlier we were doing a timed firing contest with 50 foot 22 rifle targets (A32) at 40 feet and I had 6 bullseyes in just under 3 seconds. I am by no means a good shooter and only recently got into firearms but I can't think of another weapon I could do that with.....

anyway I have learned to just listen to the following flowchart when dealing with these people
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Valorius » 01 Apr 2011, 11:17

There are some extremely devastating rounds for the Five Seven. Anyone that says they're isn't is either ill informed, or has an agenda.

A 40gr V-max at 2000fps is going to light a person up bad, and that's just the basic round.

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Ulysses38 » 01 Apr 2011, 12:54

Nice flowchart :thumb:
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 01 Apr 2011, 13:46

Grew, you are right on the money.

For those who are close-minded and do not wish to be educated, just smile, and walk away.

It is not worth it.

Trust me. I'm on the range at least once a week.
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The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Davidlee » 01 Apr 2011, 14:09

I've lived for a while and wish I'd had this chart 30 years ago. Good deal.
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by fatherfoof » 01 Apr 2011, 21:12

1. Turn on the lights.
2. When they see what I look like before fully awake, they flee in terror for having met the creature from the dark lagoon.
3. If I am awake, I'm uglier.
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Ospy » 01 Apr 2011, 22:28

fatherfoof wrote:1. Turn on the lights.
2. When they see what I look like before fully awake, they flee in terror for having met the creature from the dark lagoon.
3. If I am awake, I'm uglier.
Nice. Me, I inflate my lungs to make myself appear larger. :D

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by retirednak » 02 Apr 2011, 04:47

Some asked about stopping power. Last winter, a 1200 pound moose cow was hit by a car,she was still standing up but had a broken leg. No way would she survive. State Troopers or Fish & Feather usually put the moose down. The Troopers were going to be busy for the next couple hrs,I couldn't see the moose suffering that long. I was able to drop the moose with one shot and fired a second shot once down to make sure she was down for good. I was surprised the moose went down on the first shot and I'm pretty sure she was dead before firing the second round.

I now feel comfortable enough to carry my Five Seven full time.

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Ospy » 02 Apr 2011, 07:03

retirednak wrote:Some asked about stopping power. Last winter, a 1200 pound moose cow was hit by a car,she was still standing up but had a broken leg. No way would she survive. State Troopers or Fish & Feather usually put the moose down. The Troopers were going to be busy for the next couple hrs,I couldn't see the moose suffering that long. I was able to drop the moose with one shot and fired a second shot once down to make sure she was down for good. I was surprised the moose went down on the first shot and I'm pretty sure she was dead before firing the second round.

I now feel comfortable enough to carry my Five Seven full time.
I don't doubt, but it IS a little unbelievable. Wow! I almost need to see it

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by retirednak » 02 Apr 2011, 20:11

Since the cow had been hit by the car,she was far from healthy to begin with. A shot to the head shouldn't be hard to believe.

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Valorius » 03 Apr 2011, 12:42

A shot to the head on a moose killing it instantly should be totally believable. The 5.7 is afterall known for tremendous penetration of hard barriers (like a moose skull)

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by flyingirish04 » 03 Apr 2011, 20:49

Especially if the trooper was carrying ss190.
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by ShockedNKansas » 06 Apr 2011, 10:39

flyingirish04 wrote:Especially if the trooper was carrying ss190.
Retirednak said nothing about being a trooper. In fact, his following quote kind of implies he's not:
retirednak wrote:State Troopers or Fish & Feather usually put the moose down. The Troopers were going to be busy for the next couple hrs,I couldn't see the moose suffering that long. I was able to drop the moose with one shot...
I would ASSume he does not carry ss190 and more likely carries 195 or 197 unless he has secured la prima from EA.

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by ShockedNKansas » 06 Apr 2011, 10:52

grew wrote:I was so pissed but didn't want to start in on him about it.
grew, you shouldn't let things like that piss you off. Your anger points to a possible insecurity you have about the round. If you know you are right, then you should be laughing at his ignorance. No need to offer the excuse that you just "shoot for fun" to try and placate him. Be strong and confident and tell him it is a devastating round and he should spend more time doing research before he tries to debate the issue.

If you still feel intimidated by such conversations, go ahead and pick up a .45 and now you own big caliber and small caliber and you can tell the next guy, "hey, I own a .45 but I choose to carry the 5.7". :thumb:

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Valorius » 06 Apr 2011, 13:34

Just remember Five Seven guys....

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by grew » 06 Apr 2011, 15:25

ShockedNKansas wrote:
grew wrote:I was so pissed but didn't want to start in on him about it.
grew, you shouldn't let things like that piss you off. Your anger points to a possible insecurity you have about the round. If you know you are right, then you should be laughing at his ignorance. No need to offer the excuse that you just "shoot for fun" to try and placate him. Be strong and confident and tell him it is a devastating round and he should spend more time doing research before he tries to debate the issue.

If you still feel intimidated by such conversations, go ahead and pick up a .45 and now you own big caliber and small caliber and you can tell the next guy, "hey, I own a .45 but I choose to carry the 5.7". :thumb:
I wasn't really pissed at him I was pissed about the fact I thought i was going to be talking to someone who really enjoyed talking about guns and instead ended up with a conversation about "stopping power". As for shooting for fun it wasn't really an excuse but the truth. I am certainly not going to be the one leading the pack when the zombie apocalypse happens. I'll just be the guy with all the guns and ammo. I don't pretend to be in the military as there are better men than I serving/have served our country that chose to do that. Shooting is a fun hobby and stress reliever from my day job.

Basically I over exaggerated my responses a tad bit (but isn't that what you do on the internet?)

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Adjuster » 10 Apr 2011, 18:24

I'm brand new here, but am also tired of the stopping power debate.

It is a relentless bovine scatoria spewing diatribe that makes the owners of .45's happy to be the big dogs in the debate.

What I find amusing is often the guys who say it all falls to caliber and bullet weight, are often the ones with poor shot groups, and really need to train the most to actually use what they have.

I own a few 9mm pistols, and even a carbine, and especially on the carbine, I get the "stopping power" debate nearly every time I show up at the range with that weapon.

The 5.7 round is/was designed to replace and upgrade the 9x19mm round that has proven leathal for tens of thousands. The reality is, the 5.7 round improves on the positive aspects of the 9x19mm design, and has no downside that I can see.

As mentioned by another here, If I wanted to carry a .45, I have one, and could choose it easy. But I like the 9mm or now the FN5.7.

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 10 Apr 2011, 23:16

Adjuster wrote: What I find amusing is often the guys who say it all falls to caliber and bullet weight, are often the ones with poor shot groups, and really need to train the most to actually use what they have.
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by EARS » 12 Apr 2011, 05:25

I've had several people question the 5.7 round and why I carry the USG as my main weapon of choice for work and personal protection. I don't agree with them. I give them some of the facts behind the EA ammo and the standard factory ammo. If that doesn't change their opinion, I just ask them to step down to the target line. We'll see if this ammo is good or so non-effective. So far, not one taker. They also don't continue to argue.

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by maxbid » 12 Apr 2011, 09:31

I agree whole-heartedly about stopping power is all about shot placement and not the caliber.
Point being that Grizzly bears have been killed with a .22 lr and a .308 did not stop drugged taliban.

So, I like the point made about being able to hit your target when in a situation where your adrenalin is pumping and how accurate you can shoot will matter. That is why my night stand gun is not my Sig p220 8 shot .45acp but my Glock 17 with it's 19 round mag.

I just purchased a FnS this past weekend and have a 30 round (20 + mag extension) in it. I've put my extra M6 laser/light on it and it will now be my night stand gun. I know that I'm going to miss hitting the BG multiple times and want as many rounds as I can get.

This always reminds me of the true story of Officer Ross Jessop stopping a drunk driver. It's all captured on his patrol car's dash cam. The driver pulls out a .41mag and the first pull of the trigger you can hear it go "click" and followup trigger pull is the very loud sound of a .41 mag going off in the officers face. Officer Jessop says "Oh Sh*t" and unloads his Glock 22 (.40 S&W with 14 round mag) into the fleeing BG in his truck.
Guess how many rounds actually hit the truck?

Here's a link to the dash cam video:
http://helenair.com/news/article_2123a6 ... mode=video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's a link to the story:
http://helenair.com/news/article_2123a6 ... 002e0.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Ospy » 12 Apr 2011, 09:40

Darn. And my bedside gun IS my Sig P220. :)
Perhaps I should load up a second magazine. Or, I suppose I could just throw my FsN in the nightstand. So many choices. Either way, BG Beware!
A liberal lady friend once argued that a lot of gun owners that are victims of a crime end up getting killed with their own weapons. That's absurd! If someone is going to kill me with my own gun, they're going to have to beat me to death with it, because it's going to be empty.

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 12 Apr 2011, 18:05

All it takes is practice and a bit of skill, and you can unload a full 20 rounds of 5.7x28mm into any bad guy's A-zone COM measuring 9x14 in his chest from 20 feet and under.

I always hear people talk about what gear what gun what caliber.

It's all pointless. Speaking about it out loud online and to themselves is their only empty reassurance. When the time comes, they are SOL and will be killed.

Take our members such as DW (SWE) and B. (CencalSplicer). They went out and signed up for Frontsite classes. This is a very reputable academy that I myself consider top of the list to enter. No, a Magpul Carbine class isn't on the top, because it's not very applicable, unless you think you can carry your carbine around and are MIL/have access to land and hunt/LE (I never think I know enough, and would still take the opportunity any day to learn more). Even then they do not have it on body.

There is what some think is "cool" etc. and accepted in the "firearms community". I wonder how many of these people in the "community" should follow our fellow friends, DW, B, and others like Ryker. Perhaps much too many. Initiative.
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Bones » 12 Apr 2011, 18:08

I carry an AT-4 between my front seats :p

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 12 Apr 2011, 18:43

I actually stopped and pondered the possibility of this, but only because you're Bones :evil:
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by jgreenberg01 » 12 Apr 2011, 19:21

Bones wrote:I carry an AT-4 between my front seats :p
I actually have one...

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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by blueorison » 12 Apr 2011, 19:59

Image

Did you take the barcode off of your FsN, yet? :lmao:

Screw the AT4 I'll take the shooter.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
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Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by Rapier1772 » 12 Apr 2011, 21:01

blueorison wrote:
jgreenberg01 wrote:
Bones wrote:I carry an AT-4 between my front seats :p
I actually have one...
Did you take the barcode off of your FsN, yet? :lmao:
AT-4 still has the barcode on it
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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Post by f3rr37 » 12 Apr 2011, 22:18

I think we've beaten the dead horse enough here, and we're getting off topic now.

Topic closed.

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