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Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 26 Mar 2011, 14:44
by jgreenberg01
+1 to what Blue said... and when not out practicing, one might try using a spell checker. It only takes a moment and makes for a much better first-post impression. I'm just sayin'...

Oh, and welcome to the forum :D

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 26 Mar 2011, 16:24
by Davidlee
Blueorison you make a lot of sense and soon as my supply of SS197SR gets here I will do just that. I also like the idea of a five tap. :patriot:

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 26 Mar 2011, 17:26
by flyingirish04
The way I was trained was to continue firing until the guy is completely incapacitated. If there is doubt, continue shooting. You don't see it in any movies, because quite frankly it looks brutal and inefficient, but it is the way it works in the real world. Keep shooting till you know the BG is down, forever.

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 26 Mar 2011, 18:27
by Mister Freeze
It's really quite simple:

Energy calculations are the max POTENTIAL that COULD be delivered into a target. Smaller bullets CAN make up for mass with increased VELOCITY. 'Sweet Spots' require less damage to achieve a desired effect. SHOT PLACEMENT counts for more than bullet size or velocity.

Having said that, on any given day, in any firefight, I want MORE OPPORTUNITIES to PLACE MY SHOTS than the other guy. Thus, CAPACITY and SKILL are king and queen.

Example: crack shot with a TC vs a novice with something belt fed; who can afford to miss more?

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 26 Mar 2011, 18:47
by drinksabit
flyingirish04 wrote:The way I was trained was to continue firing until the guy is completely incapacitated. If there is doubt, continue shooting. You don't see it in any movies, because quite frankly it looks brutal and inefficient, but it is the way it works in the real world. Keep shooting till you know the BG is down, forever.
Shoot until the target catches on fire or changes shape. I believe falling down crumpled up is changing shape.

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 26 Mar 2011, 22:53
by fatherfoof
Welcome to the forum. Blue, can you consolidate the weekly 400 identical questions into the wiki so we don't keep chasing our collective tails? The only variation is Fly has horns and a pitchfork along with a tail. (hahaha)

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 26 Mar 2011, 23:01
by blueorison
Good idea, Father.

Though this won't stop the exact same question from being posted each week, we'll have somewhere to direct newbies. :)

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 27 Mar 2011, 00:19
by blueorison
w/index.php?title=Ammunition#Effectiven ... 28mm_Round" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Done.

And with gusto/opinion.

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 27 Mar 2011, 05:53
by ryker
1- if you could buy a 20rd, armor piercing, low recoil .50 then that's what I'd carry. Such platform doesn't exist.

2- level IIIa armor can be purchased used for less than 200.00

3- I'm lucky if backup is 5min away. I'm lucky if my portable radio works to ask for help. So having 61 rounds is a huge peace of mind. How fast does 12rd Glock magazines go in a battle?

4- there are countless case studies in which perps were shot numerous rounds with .357, .40, and .45 and was able to stay in the fight and live.

5- IMO FNH has done a terrible job at expelling the myths and showing some solid data. I'd love to see some slow motion clips of ballistic gel and other targets. Come on FnH take a look at how Ford is using YouTube.

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 27 Mar 2011, 08:21
by Buffman
That's the only observation I can make. EA can develop all of these rounds that are not only safe to shoot in the 5.7 platform, but outperform all factory ammunition.. Why isn't FNH stepping up the R&D and offering a more potent SD and or Duty round. After all they keep touting the FSN as a home defense weapon in magazines, but we've never really seen much of anything from them in regards to how they came to such assertion (assuming one is not a forum member here). I don't see why they couldn't bump up the #s on the SS197SR..

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 27 Mar 2011, 08:27
by ryker
Seams like FnH would have the abilty to measure internal pressures of a
Ballistic gel block. Slow speed camera footage of the internal
Shockwaves.

As well as penetration of car doors, windows, walls, etc etc.

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 27 Mar 2011, 10:06
by jgreenberg01
Buffman wrote:That's the only observation I can make. EA can develop all of these rounds that are not only safe to shoot in the 5.7 platform, but outperform all factory ammunition.. Why isn't FNH stepping up the R&D and offering a more potent SD and or Duty round. After all they keep touting the FSN as a home defense weapon in magazines, but we've never really seen much of anything from them in regards to how they came to such assertion (assuming one is not a forum member here). I don't see why they couldn't bump up the #s on the SS197SR..
That's a good question, maybe because:

A) with all of the anti-gunners fighting to get this evil gun banned - FNH doesn't want to press their luck?
B) people speak about the "anemic" ss197 round as if it really is anemic. Maybe compared to EA's offerings it is, however the round is certainly effective. I hate to use this as a metric, but look at the carnage that one (likely untrained) crazed, lunatic, jihadist was able to generate using (what we assume to be) ss197 rounds.

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, but it makes sense to me considering the current political environment...

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 27 Mar 2011, 11:01
by Davidlee
My 1st shipment of EA ammo protecTOR II is on the way. will do my own testing and it is not as elaborate as some, but the best I can afford, its make up 1st layer doubled up blue jean, 1/2" wet news paper, bone in pork ribs (cheap stuff) followed up by 14" of more wet news paper. Will try to post results and pictures.

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 27 Mar 2011, 12:12
by panzermk2
You guys know Brass Fetcher Ballistic labs is about to evaluate three of our rounds?


Included in this is high speed vids of S4M, Pro2 and T6. Since there are so many bar-stool commandos who accuse me of faking my tests I am paying them to perform these tests. I have given Brass Fetcher permission to make all their result public on their website also.

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 27 Mar 2011, 13:26
by Nickf150fx4
Awesome news about the testing!!! I would love to see some high speed video of T-6 or any of your ammo for that matter

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 27 Mar 2011, 14:21
by Buffman
jgreenberg01 wrote:
Buffman wrote:That's the only observation I can make. EA can develop all of these rounds that are not only safe to shoot in the 5.7 platform, but outperform all factory ammunition.. Why isn't FNH stepping up the R&D and offering a more potent SD and or Duty round. After all they keep touting the FSN as a home defense weapon in magazines, but we've never really seen much of anything from them in regards to how they came to such assertion (assuming one is not a forum member here). I don't see why they couldn't bump up the #s on the SS197SR..
That's a good question, maybe because:

A) with all of the anti-gunners fighting to get this evil gun banned - FNH doesn't want to press their luck?
B) people speak about the "anemic" ss197 round as if it was really is anemic. Maybe compared to EA's offerings it is, however the round is certainly effective. I hate to use this as a metric, but look at the carnage that one (likely untrained) crazed, lunatic, jihadist was able to generate using (what we assume to be) ss197 rounds.

I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, but it makes sense to me considering the current political environment...
A and B I agree on. I'm certainly not discounting the SS197SR, but it seems many do. It's just odd, that anyone who's intelligent knows the 5.7 is no more a cop killer than a 9mm,etc tc. Why FNH would have such a platform, then not try to get more out of it..

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 28 Mar 2011, 07:38
by Davidlee
I believe what your saying panzermk2 or I personally wouldn't order your ammo, I just like to diddle around so I can get to peel the paper and measure the depth and see the bones fragmented, hands on stuff like that helps me to feel like I'm doing something productive. In fact fixin to order some more EA ammo right now. Mindset, Practice, confidence in self, equipment, and ammo that is the real stopping power.

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 31 Mar 2011, 00:40
by Ospy
I wanted to say thank you for all the information you've all provided on this topic. I am not new to forums. I've belonged to Hummer H1 forums for years and I am very familiar with the format. All forums are basically the same. Having said that, yes, I should have searched out the information before I brought it up. Sorry for making you all rehash this over again. Still, it was fun. Truthfully though, I am new to this forum and it was just my way of walking into the party already in progress and saying "hi" without knowing what was already talked about before I arrived. You guys did a great job of dispelling the stopping power myth.

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 31 Mar 2011, 20:19
by 2ndAMVa
To the original poster...Mozambique Drill!
The FN 5.7 is ideal for doing the Mozambique Drill.

Re: FsN and the Stopping Power stigma

Posted: 31 Mar 2011, 20:29
by drinksabit
2ndAMVa wrote:To the original poster...Mozambique Drill!
The FN 5.7 is ideal for doing the Mozambique Drill.
+1