Boneheads - Atlanta area

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tparty
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Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by tparty » 16 Dec 2010, 18:01

Folks--I'm not much of a complainer, but I have an interesting story.

There's a local range here in the ATL that gets lots of bad reviews among the gun community. For the most part, the book on the range (and gun shop) is that the folks there are not exactly user friendly. I purchased one firearm there and have occasionally frequented the place, trying to keep an open mind.

That said, yesterday I took one of my colleagues there to shoot at lunch (our office is a stone's throw from the range and I my colleague wanted to try the FsN). As I was waiting to get into the range, one of the guys in the gun store saw the FsN and told me: "You can't shoot that here." I asked him why not, and he told me it's against the rules. I explained that I had planned on shooting using factory ammo I had purchased in the store. He told me I had to put the FsN in my car or they would ask me to leave. Being embarrassed and with a colleague, I sheepishly complied, and took a picture of the sign he was referring to (note item no. 7):

http://i1007.photobucket.com/albums/af1 ... hoto-1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have the utmost respect for private property rights, and I'm quite involved in the local gun owner community, which is why I don't want to publish the range's name (I'll reply back to PMs), but their attitude and lack of customer service is very disappointing. Thought I should share with the folks on the forum on the chance I can save someone from a frustrating experience. Guess I'll exercise my prerogative and not go back there...ever.

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by Rapier1772 » 16 Dec 2010, 18:13

Item #7? Steel core ammo? That is news to me about the 197s :skep:
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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by FNFlorida » 16 Dec 2010, 18:42

Same thing with a range in Florida. There's a chain here that has about 5-6 locations with a gun range at each. One recently opened up by me (Fort Myers, FL). Out of curiosity I walked in, asked first if they carried 5.7's, they said they were $1300 (USG's). Shook my head, asked about ammo. SS195 for $36.95/box SS197 $28.95. Shook my head. Asked about the range "We don't allow the FN Five-Seven, it's a danger to our facilities because it over-penetrates" Shook my head. Walked out.

The couple other questions I asked regarding the round brought on some laughable responses. Most of their salespeople seem to have as much knowledge about firearms as they do about mapping the human genome. Sad to see, because I like to keep my business to local shops, but I cannot bring myself to pay a 90% markup at a place staffed by ignorant people.

In other words, it's not just in Georgia!

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 16 Dec 2010, 21:28

Every gunshop is different. They all tend to cater to slightly different "gun needs"... you get the ones that primarily focus on hunting, with dozens of wood stocks, long guns, and over-unders adorning the walls. You get the more tacticl gun shops with nothing but sihlouetted AR's and the like, laid-out across the vertical dispaly rakcs, pistols so thick in the display case its hard to see which one is which. Then you get a little of everything in between.

The golden-era of getting guns well under retail price doesn't seem to be coming back like I would have hoped. 10 years ago I could walk into my favorite store, and walk out 100 or 200 under sticker with lots of "free stuff". Now a lot of stores don't even bother with MSRP; they're out for that "one time sale" to someone who would rather pay the excess profit than bring himself to adequately shop around, OR, they just know there is a sucker born every minute. I'd say a pretty big majority of gun owners, dont' really know a whole lot about the breadth of firearms out there, so its not like gun stores have to know that much either. Its the deaf selling to the blind most of the time. The gun stores that give the managers/salesmen the ability to haggle are much more interesting. I've been to several "you must pay whats on the sticker, no exceptions" gun stores, and its a huge turnoff- and its the owner's fault. If he lays strict rules that the gun doesn't leave the store except if you bend over and pay his outragous markup, I just walk out. Guns are one of the last bastions of true capitolism, where the price is always negotiable. Unlike the bulk of American stores, which have somehow brainwashed the general population that whatever digit happens to be printed on the pricetag is the one God himself put there, guns have managed to stay somehwhat liquid in their value.

But, tparty, I experience the exact same thing sometimes, even at gun stores I like; it all has to do with the salesmen. I'm really into cars, and I wind up going to the dealerships often to just to browse whats new. The guy lurking through the aisles of new vehicles to come shake my hand within 6.2 seconds of stepping on the lot, usually isn't the brightest candle in the bunch. He's simply paid to be a smiling face that I can follow into their showroom, show me a place to sit, and make ridiculous trips back and forth to an elevated booth where a 'man behind the curtain' decides the fate of our financial transaction... thats about it. Product knowldge is usually skin deep, and I usually know about 100x more about what I'm buying than the guy supposedly selling it to me. But to them, product knowledge doesn't mean squat unless they can make money. And to their credit, thats true. Now just about everybody drives cars, but only the real "fan boys" out there, like me, can sit there and jaw-jack all day long about the technical aspects.

The same thing holds true in the gun world... millions of gun owners out there, but only a small percentage of forum-goers and "fan boys" of the FiveseveN can sit there and speak knowledgably, from an educated standpoint. And the guy making 6.95/hr+ $50/gun in commission isn't hired to be a guru; he's hired to literally open a cabinet, clear the weapon, and hand it to somebody who manages to point their booger hook at it... and make sure the place doesn't get robbed. With that said, there ARE a lot of great gun store owners, store managers, and general salesmen who are GREAT! They are "one of us" for lack of a better term. But for every one of us, there are about 10 absolute idiot-heads out there working the sales cabinets.

For what you described about the "no steel cores" episode, sounds like the store is pretty lame, and contains very few brain cells with regards to the technical side of firearms. Just dont' go back, and continue to bad mouth them. Business will suffer and they'll fail, or lose money, or both.

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by User42 » 16 Dec 2010, 22:11

I have been told a few times that they won't allow the FSN on the pistol range, only the rifle range. That I can understand. I have also been told that I can't shoot the FSN period, and that I must put it in the car or leave it behind the counter. The last time it was actually explained pretty well, since there is AP ammo available for it they won't allow it, as they can't strip search everyone and check every round they bring in. I offered to put all my ammo back in the car and buy some of their ss197, but they said that used to be the rule before they found holes in their backstop suspected someone had slipped in a few rounds of AP. Because of that it's now a no exceptions rule to not allow anything that can shoot AP ammo. It sucks, but it's really hard to argue with that. A few bad apples really can ruin it for everyone.

I'm getting out of the military soon, and while it would sort of like working at a convience store when I'm qualified for so much more, I think working at a gun store would be pretty fun :D I might do it as a part time gig while going to college. Better believe I will try and convince the owner to become a forum sponsor as well, even if they don't normally sell online.
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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 16 Dec 2010, 22:31

I've always thought working at a gun store would be fun... but I would worry that like everything else, too much of a good thing would ruin the "fun" in it. Then of course you get so many idiots in there, and tire kickers, and broke-ass hobos that can't buy stuff, mixed-in with the video-game gun expert kids that think they're tactical firearms experts becuase they play 23.5 hours of "Call of Duty" every day. It would get old.

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by fatherfoof » 16 Dec 2010, 23:39

For a couple years, this has been an almost ver batim post. So many ranges see the 5.7 for something other than what it is, and in uneducated fashion banned it. It is their right, and Lord knows we want business owners to not be ordered by anyone what rules they should impose. However, it is most unfair to all of us with the 5.7- it is incumbant upon us to respectfully teach them this is a fine pistol they would do well to sell and/or rent, let alone ban.
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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by User42 » 16 Dec 2010, 23:47

Nahh I dunno. I think the taticfools would be the best part. I would sell them whatever their budget would allow :D While I know what I like and what I would never buy, I think I could come up with a positive talking point on just about anything that goes bang.

Tire kickers?
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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by PeterGunn » 17 Dec 2010, 04:44

My gun club on Long Island has also banned the FiveseveN for the indoor pistol range. But they've also banned Magnum calibers including the .22Rim/Mag. They claim the fast bullets severely damage the backstops.

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by Cyberfly » 17 Dec 2010, 05:47

I can see banning weapons that have the 'capability' of firing AP ammo...but isn't that essentially EVERY handgun out there? I mean, REALLY? Hasn't just about every ammo manufacturer at one time or another produced an AP round at one time or another for just about every caliber made?
I'm just saying...
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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by tparty » 17 Dec 2010, 16:42

SeaHawkDriver-B said:
The same thing holds true in the gun world... millions of gun owners out there, but only a small percentage of forum-goers and "fan boys" of the FiveseveN can sit there and speak knowledgably, from an educated standpoint. And the guy making 6.95/hr+ $50/gun in commission isn't hired to be a guru; he's hired to literally open a cabinet, clear the weapon, and hand it to somebody who manages to point their booger hook at it... and make sure the place doesn't get robbed. With that said, there ARE a lot of great gun store owners, store managers, and general salesmen who are GREAT! They are "one of us" for lack of a better term. But for every one of us, there are about 10 absolute idiot-heads out there working the sales cabinets.

For what you described about the "no steel cores" episode, sounds like the store is pretty lame, and contains very few brain cells with regards to the technical side of firearms. Just dont' go back, and continue to bad mouth them. Business will suffer and they'll fail, or lose money, or both.
Fair enough. For the sake of equal opportunity and staying positive, I'll be glad to PM the name of some great gun stores in the northern suburbs of the ATL. There are some good ones and (naturally) I appreciate them. It's fortunate that I'm located in a deep red state with a metro area of nearly 6 million people--there are many choices and it pays to get to know the local gun shop guys.

For example, there's one that I frequent that's owned by a state representative. Last week I bought two pounds of TAC and, without asking for it, the sales guy gave me 10% off. The price per pound was $20.79 (before the discount). While this isn't as cheap as powdervalleyinc.com, it significant lower than the boneheads and lower than most of the local gun show suppliers. Bottom line: These guys are great and I love doing business with them.

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by Phleborrhagia » 18 Dec 2010, 01:41

tparty wrote: For example, there's one that I frequent that's owned by a state representative. Last week I bought two pounds of TAC and, without asking for it, the sales guy gave me 10% off. The price per pound was $20.79 (before the discount). While this isn't as cheap as powdervalleyinc.com, it significant lower than the boneheads and lower than most of the local gun show suppliers. Bottom line: These guys are great and I love doing business with them.
Yeah, the place you're talking about, Hi Caliber, has excellent range prices too - $15 and you can shoot all day, you can even leave for lunch and come back too :thumb: .

That photo of the rules sign looks awfully familiar, and if it's the range I'm thinking of (not Hi Caliber), they're customer service SUCKS to say the least - very rude employees and you can find a lot of their stuff for cheaper about a mile down the road from them; that place was way better before the change in ownership. Only reason why I'd go back their is cause I've still got some range credit left after buying my FsN back in 05.

PM me the name of the place (if you don't mind)

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by Team Helotes » 18 Dec 2010, 05:50

A local shop here is crazy on prices.

AR57 $929.95. I asked them where the stock and 4 mags were. They said that price was for the upper only. I said you have to be kidding. He said NOPE. that is it. I told him from the maker I can order it for $695. His comment was "well if you think you can buy it for that then try and get".

I called another local shop, was not even a dealer for AR57. He sent in paperwork and became a dealer for them in 1 day and ordered me the complete carbine for $1028.17 out the door. I should have it Tues.

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by Never Enough » 18 Dec 2010, 10:32

FNFlorida could you pm me with that name as I live in the Fort Myers Area also, I am very opinionated about some of the stores myself. I dont want to support someone who is not customer friendly and does not know about 5.7 ammo even though they sell it.......Thanks

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by tparty » 19 Dec 2010, 07:10

Never Enough said:
FNFlorida could you pm me with that name as I live in the Fort Myers Area also, I am very opinionated about some of the stores myself. I dont want to support someone who is not customer friendly and does not know about 5.7 ammo even though they sell it.......Thanks
Perhaps we should start a list or thread of FsN-friendly ranges? Don't recall seeing anything on the forum covering this. To keep it positive, the list would only include friendly ranges. Thoughts?

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by jgreenberg01 » 19 Dec 2010, 08:29

tparty wrote:Perhaps we should start a list or thread of FsN-friendly ranges? Don't recall seeing anything on the forum covering this. To keep it positive, the list would only include friendly ranges. Thoughts?
:agree: I think that's a great idea!
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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by PearlMonte » 20 Dec 2010, 11:51

jgreenberg01 wrote:
tparty wrote:Perhaps we should start a list or thread of FsN-friendly ranges? Don't recall seeing anything on the forum covering this. To keep it positive, the list would only include friendly ranges. Thoughts?
:agree: I think that's a great idea!
:agree:

Maybe have friendly ranges by state, In ohio, Stonewall Range is FsN friendly :thumb:

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by tparty » 20 Dec 2010, 15:56

Here are a few that I'm aware of that are gun FsN friendly (I can vouch for these as of the last time I shot there):

Georgia:
Hi-Caliber (Holly Springs, GA)--my favorite; how can you go wrong with an owner who is a state representative that has a "come and take it" AR-15 sticker on his SUV?
Nick's Guns (Marietta, GA)
Sandy Springs Firing Range (Sandy Springs, GA)--very neat electronic controls on Range 3
Creekside Firing Range (Taylorsville, GA)--the old guy is cool with rapid fire

Texas:
Thunder Gun Range (Conroe, TX)--300yd range

Florida:
Shoal River Spring Clays (Crestview, FL)--no rapid fire; great stop when visiting Destin
Trail Glades Shooting Range (Miami, FL)--my all time favorite; hard to believe 1st time I shot there was nearly 35 years ago

I've shot a quite a bit more, but these guys make my FsN recommended list--my kind of party.

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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by jgreenberg01 » 20 Dec 2010, 17:02

One more for Florida:

Gateway Gun Range in Jacksonville - specifically the members only, "overflow" ranges with steel plates. It's the only part of the facility that they allow rapid fire, but it's only for handguns and rimfire rifles. However recently they approved 5.7 as the only center fire rifle cartridge allowed to be fired in that section of the range.

And FYI, to my surprise, the ammo I shot out of the FsN or AR57 fails to make a substantial dent in the plates (I tried 197s, ProtecTORs and S5s).
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Re: Boneheads - Atlanta area

Post by PainKillaX » 20 Dec 2010, 18:10

In Washington I have shot my FsN at both Plantation Range up in Whatcom and Sam's Gun Range in Snohomish. Although this is pretty much topic for another thread.

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