Ft. Hood
- blueorison
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Re: Ft. Hood
It says he did not fire the revolver. Then they say they heard shots that sounded like it came from different guns.
So...
So...
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
Re: Ft. Hood
That number probably includes casings from the shootout with police -- this source says 146 casings were recovered from inside the building. A witness that picked up the gun says the shooter had "skinny bullets with blue tips." As much work as the shooter put into planning this incident (two stacked lasers, extended magazines, etc), it's fortunate he went with SS197SR ammunition over the other types.Buffman wrote:214 rounds and 6 magazines?? Even expending the one in the gun doesn't come out equal. did he fire the revolver?
http://www.krqe.com/dpps/news/us/south/ ... g-_3616751" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Ft. Hood
Interesting. First time I've seen that we now know that he was using SS197 and not SS195, SS192, or the 'evil' SS190 that the media seems to have latched on to.
Thanks for posting the link.
Thanks for posting the link.
- buckett
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Re: Ft. Hood
Don't waste any time digging a grave. Throw him to the dogs.blueorison wrote:Terrorist. Burn them all. The Bible says to wish peace and love upon your enemies. I wish them to be peaceful 6 feet under.eagleshotz wrote:http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 391df.html :ponder:
And he had BOTH red and green Lasermax? So he stacked one under the other? AND he had 30 round mags? This terrorist might as well be a barf.com fanboy, may he burn with them.
Sorry to get off topic. Back on topic, I hope he goes to prison, he won't last long.
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It takes 43 muscles to frown... 17 muscles to smile... But only 3 for a proper trigger squeeze.
It takes 43 muscles to frown... 17 muscles to smile... But only 3 for a proper trigger squeeze.
Re: Ft. Hood
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/21/tex ... /?hpt=Sbin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"He asked one question -- what's the most technologically advanced handgun?" Army Specialist William Gilbert testified.
"I asked him, 'What's your intended purpose?' " Gilbert said.
Hasan gave no answer, according to Gilbert, but said his two specifications were the most technologically advanced handgun and a high magazine capacity.
"He asked one question -- what's the most technologically advanced handgun?" Army Specialist William Gilbert testified.
"I asked him, 'What's your intended purpose?' " Gilbert said.
Hasan gave no answer, according to Gilbert, but said his two specifications were the most technologically advanced handgun and a high magazine capacity.
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Re: Ft. Hood
1. He had a SCOPE on the GUN? In addition to a green AND red laser?
2. How much would you bet on, that he got his information about the pistol, from one of the "forums"...
3. His gun jammed, most likely round stuck in the chamber, which is why Kimberly Munley is STILL alive, or she would be toast by now
4. He was using ss197, had 2 of his mags fitted with 10 round extensions; definitely had info coming from some "forum"
All this is pretty wild, and I wouldn't believe it if they didn't testify to it.
2. How much would you bet on, that he got his information about the pistol, from one of the "forums"...
3. His gun jammed, most likely round stuck in the chamber, which is why Kimberly Munley is STILL alive, or she would be toast by now
4. He was using ss197, had 2 of his mags fitted with 10 round extensions; definitely had info coming from some "forum"
All this is pretty wild, and I wouldn't believe it if they didn't testify to it.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
- buckett
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Re: Ft. Hood
A scope too? It sounds like he's been learning from a video game...
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Re: Ft. Hood
As a career military officer, the report that these two jack<profanity> flag officers wrote is disgusting. Its a political hat-tip to the Obama administration, and is a disgrace to the men and women who died that day in the name of "Islam". Its treasonous and they should be indicted in their own Article 32, if not promptly shot by their own troops as a more expeditious matter of their disposal.
The military has done absolutely NOTHING to prevent Fort Hood from happening again. I can attest to this first hand. The entrenched leadership outright refuses to publically acknowledge the Islamic threat from within out of fear of career suicide. Instead they will cover this festering wound with tissue paper. There will be mandatory classes, sensitivity training, the normal fare... and maybe a few more 'random' searches at the front gate to ensure that none of our "soldiers" DARE to bring in their own weapons to defend themselves from situations like Fort Hood. Instead, we must rely on poorly equipped, poorly trained, and usually out-sourced and contracted gate guards, and skeleton bodies of military police that patrol our bases in junked-out Ford explorers, equipped with 15-year old Beretta M9's, loaded with standard pressure 9mm FMJ.
Stupdity will again rule the day, as it usually does within our ranks.
Interesting to see that the guy used the blue-tips, if he had half a brain on his head he would have gotten a case of brown-box SS192, and at least done an endurance test on his OD-green FsN to see if there would be any extraction failures. A quick backup gun in the same caliber would have been a better investment than an unfired .357.
And he had a 'scope' on it??? As far as I know, there is only ONE option, maybe two at the most, for installing a scope on top of the FsN, and both those dude are on this forum. So who is it? Anyone.... Bueler?.... Bueler?.....
The military has done absolutely NOTHING to prevent Fort Hood from happening again. I can attest to this first hand. The entrenched leadership outright refuses to publically acknowledge the Islamic threat from within out of fear of career suicide. Instead they will cover this festering wound with tissue paper. There will be mandatory classes, sensitivity training, the normal fare... and maybe a few more 'random' searches at the front gate to ensure that none of our "soldiers" DARE to bring in their own weapons to defend themselves from situations like Fort Hood. Instead, we must rely on poorly equipped, poorly trained, and usually out-sourced and contracted gate guards, and skeleton bodies of military police that patrol our bases in junked-out Ford explorers, equipped with 15-year old Beretta M9's, loaded with standard pressure 9mm FMJ.
Stupdity will again rule the day, as it usually does within our ranks.
Interesting to see that the guy used the blue-tips, if he had half a brain on his head he would have gotten a case of brown-box SS192, and at least done an endurance test on his OD-green FsN to see if there would be any extraction failures. A quick backup gun in the same caliber would have been a better investment than an unfired .357.
And he had a 'scope' on it??? As far as I know, there is only ONE option, maybe two at the most, for installing a scope on top of the FsN, and both those dude are on this forum. So who is it? Anyone.... Bueler?.... Bueler?.....
Re: Ft. Hood
I served in the Air Force under 3 Presidents; Reagan, Bush and Clinton. Airmen living in the dorms had to have their guns locked in the base armory. Airmen living in base family housing could store their guns in their houses. Airmen were not allowed to carry open or CCW on base. Those rules may have tightened under President Clinton, I don't know, I didn't live on base under him. That was for stateside bases, overseas we were not allowed to have personal guns at all.hookdriver wrote:A good opinion piece from WND on the disarming of soldiers on our own posts. I know some don't like WND, but this is opinion -- not news.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=115985
Contains this great quote attributed to Thomas Paine:
Could the peaceable principle of the Quakers be universally established, arms and the art of war would be wholly extirpated: But we live not in a world of angels. … I am thus far a Quaker, that I would gladly agree with all the world to lay aside the use of arms, and settle matters by negotiation: but unless the whole will, the matter ends, and I take up my musket and thank heaven he has put it in my power.
I didn't realize that Clinton made such a large change in '93. I didn't join up until '97. Any members here share what weapon control was like on post prior to '93?
- Rapier1772
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Re: Ft. Hood
Another attack?
http://news.yahoo.com/awol-soldier-gets ... 29850.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What is with taking it out on Ft Hood? This guy was out of KY, why go to TX to wreak havoc?
http://news.yahoo.com/awol-soldier-gets ... 29850.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's all they have right now.AWOL soldier gets life term for Fort Hood plot
WACO, Texas (AP) — An AWOL soldier convicted of planning to blow up a restaurant full of Fort Hood troops has been sentenced to life in prison by a federal judge in Texas.
Army Pfc. Naser Jason Abdo received the punishment Friday in Waco.
Abdo told authorities he planned to make bombs as part of a "massive attack" against Fort Hood soldiers last year. He was convicted in May on six federal charges, including attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction.
The 22-year-old represented himself at the sentencing.
Abdo was AWOL from Fort Campbell, Ky., when he was arrested with bomb-making materials last summer at a Fort Hood-area motel.
What is with taking it out on Ft Hood? This guy was out of KY, why go to TX to wreak havoc?
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Re: Ft. Hood
Hood...burka?
I have NO friggin idea. Just grasping at straws here...
I have NO friggin idea. Just grasping at straws here...
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Re: Ft. Hood
I mean, I LOATH Ft Hood and Killeen as much as the next guy. The place sucks. But blowing it up or shooting it up, not cool.
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Re: Ft. Hood
There's been a lot of talk in the hearing about the victim's autopsy reports. This is going to sound sick but... is there a way for us to see them? Perhaps via the Freedom of Information Act?
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Re: Ft. Hood
Perhaps Civics 101 will help with the how everything fits together question that you didn't ask.
http://www.dummies.com/store/product/Et ... 91714.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might be the right place to start, though.
http://www.dummies.com/store/product/Et ... 91714.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might be the right place to start, though.
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Re: Ft. Hood
So another (ostensibly) Islamist tries to blow up Fort Hood soldiers and its not all over the news? I am bewildered by the media's reluctance to admit that these are acts of terrorism...
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Re: Ft. Hood
This was actually in the news back in July, 2011-ish. The reporting did subside fairly quickly, but still, I'm surprised you guys missed.
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- Rapier1772
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Re: Ft. Hood
This is still not resolved. Some excerpts:
http://news.yahoo.com/ft-hood-suspect-d ... 07014.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://news.yahoo.com/ft-hood-suspect-d ... 07014.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Army psychiatrist charged in the deadly 2009 Fort Hood shooting rampage said Monday that he'll use a "defense of others" argument when he represents himself at his upcoming murder trial.
Hasan, 42, faces the death penalty or life without parole if convicted of 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted premeditated murder.
Hasan, who was set to deploy to Afghanistan with some of the troops killed that day on the Texas Army post, likely will try to show that he was trying to defend Muslims against U.S. troops in a war that he believes is illegal and immoral, military law experts said. To prove a "defense of others" argument, a defendant must show a threat was imminent.
"Even if he feels the U.S. is in an unjustified war, this defendant is not going to be able to show a threat was immediate because these soldiers were on U.S. soil and unarmed," said Jeff Addicott, director of the Center for Terrorism Law at St. Mary's University in San Antonio, who is not involved in Hasan's case.
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Re: Ft. Hood
It's infuriating to read that there is any defense that can be used for his actions. But when you read on in the article you see:
Just my $0.02...
We have some interesting rules - the guy wants to jump on his own grenade - let's save some time and money and let this piece of garbage self-terminate.At a hearing in May, Hasan told Osborn that he wanted to plead guilty. But Army rules prohibit a judge from accepting a guilty plea to charges that could result in a death sentence. Osborn also denied his request to plead guilty to lesser murder charges, citing legal issues that could have arisen because his death penalty trial still would have proceeded.
Just my $0.02...
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Re: Ft. Hood
:agree: :thumb:jgreenberg01 wrote:It's infuriating to read that there is any defense that can be used for his actions. But when you read on in the article you see:
We have some interesting rules - the guy wants to jump on his own grenade - let's save some time and money and let this piece of garbage self-terminate.At a hearing in May, Hasan told Osborn that he wanted to plead guilty. But Army rules prohibit a judge from accepting a guilty plea to charges that could result in a death sentence. Osborn also denied his request to plead guilty to lesser murder charges, citing legal issues that could have arisen because his death penalty trial still would have proceeded.
Just my $0.02...
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- Rapier1772
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Re: Ft. Hood
The good news is that he is representing himself. Maybe that is as good as pleading guilty?
"A man who represents himself has a fool for a client." -Abraham Lincoln
Now they are saying that he will be able to question his victims at his trial. For a fair trail, I think this should be allowed just as they would allow Hasan's lawyer(s) to question them, if he had one.
But if I were one of the victims being questioned, I would also make it clear to him at about 10ft away, "That's close enough - lest I see you as a threat AGAIN."
Any argument & just say he wasn't SUPPOSED to have a gun on him last time, why should this time be met with any less caution?
"A man who represents himself has a fool for a client." -Abraham Lincoln
Now they are saying that he will be able to question his victims at his trial. For a fair trail, I think this should be allowed just as they would allow Hasan's lawyer(s) to question them, if he had one.
But if I were one of the victims being questioned, I would also make it clear to him at about 10ft away, "That's close enough - lest I see you as a threat AGAIN."
Any argument & just say he wasn't SUPPOSED to have a gun on him last time, why should this time be met with any less caution?
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Re: Ft. Hood
Surprised no one has posted this yet. http://www.wnd.com/2013/05/fort-hood-sh ... ing-trial/
"(Washington Times) Nidal Malik Hasan, the U.S. Army Major accused of killing 13 and injuring 30 others in a mass shooting at Fort Hood, Texas on November 5, 2009, has received around $278,000 in salary payments over the three-and-a-half years he has been awaiting trial.
According to an NBC 5 Investigates report from Dallas-Fort Worth NBC affiliate NBC 5, a spokesperson for the Department of Defense confirmed its continued payments to Hasan, stating that the department can’t suspend his salary until he has been proven guilty."
Yet, his victims have not gotten any restitution and having issues getting VA/ service benefits. :ponder: :wall: :furious:
"(Washington Times) Nidal Malik Hasan, the U.S. Army Major accused of killing 13 and injuring 30 others in a mass shooting at Fort Hood, Texas on November 5, 2009, has received around $278,000 in salary payments over the three-and-a-half years he has been awaiting trial.
According to an NBC 5 Investigates report from Dallas-Fort Worth NBC affiliate NBC 5, a spokesperson for the Department of Defense confirmed its continued payments to Hasan, stating that the department can’t suspend his salary until he has been proven guilty."
Yet, his victims have not gotten any restitution and having issues getting VA/ service benefits. :ponder: :wall: :furious:
- Rapier1772
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Re: Ft. Hood
I knew about the pay until guilty thing but his victims & their families? WTF?
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Re: Ft. Hood
One of the survivors of the shooting actually started a fund to help support the other survivors.Rapier1772 wrote:I knew about the pay until guilty thing but his victims & their families? WTF?
http://www.32stillstanding.com/Fort_Hoo ... en_TX.html
- Rapier1772
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Re: Ft. Hood
I guess he doesn't get paid any more
http://news.yahoo.com/fort-hood-gunman- ... ories.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Maybe we can take his pay back to offset a bit of the legal bills?
Based on what I've read, I am pretty sure he wants to die. Hope he gets his wish.
http://news.yahoo.com/fort-hood-gunman- ... ories.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sentencing next weekHasan was found guilty on all counts, including 13 charges of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder.
Maybe we can take his pay back to offset a bit of the legal bills?
$5 million? Why?The military spent four years and $5 million to ensure Hasan would be convicted and be eligible for a death sentence.
Based on what I've read, I am pretty sure he wants to die. Hope he gets his wish.
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- Cyberfly
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Re: Ft. Hood
Death by a thousand paper cuts, then rolled in pig waste and pork blood and let him die by infection.
He can await his 72 Virginians in the afterlife...
He can await his 72 Virginians in the afterlife...
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- Rapier1772
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Re: Ft. Hood
Fort Hood Shooter Nidal Hasan Gets Death Penalty
http://news.yahoo.com/fort-hood-shooter ... ories.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also, can we please stop calling him Major now?
http://news.yahoo.com/fort-hood-shooter ... ories.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Like I said, he wants to die. I say we hasten that along but now the appeal process starts (its an automatic thing apparently). Waste of moneyMaj. Nidal Hasan, the Army psychiatrist accused of killing 13 people in a shooting rampage at Ft. Hood, was unanimously sentenced to death today by a jury of military officers.
[Unfortunately]
Executions in the military are rare. All death sentences are subject to automatic appeal, a process that can take decades. There are currently five inmates on the military's death row, but an active serviceman has not been executed since 1961.
Over the course of the three week trial, the government called 89 witnesses, none of whom the major cross-examined. He called none of his own witnesses and immediately rested his case when he had the chance to defend himself.
Also, can we please stop calling him Major now?
Last edited by Rapier1772 on 28 Aug 2013, 14:39, edited 1 time in total.
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- blueorison
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Re: Ft. Hood
You mean stop calling him Major? Yeah. Agreed.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.
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Re: Ft. Hood
While it's morbid to glean data from the autopsies of the victims of a psychotic murderer, it is hard data concerning the performance of the 5.7x28mm round.ShockedNKansas wrote:There's been a lot of talk in the hearing about the victim's autopsy reports. This is going to sound sick but... is there a way for us to see them? Perhaps via the Freedom of Information Act?
- Hasan scored 18 torso or head hits. 13 died, 5 survived.
- 28 victims were hit in non-vital areas or limbs. All survived.
- Hasan was charged by four people. 1 survived. None were successful in reaching him.
- The SS197 round shattered a femur, making it impossible for Officer Munley to continue to engage her target.
- Hasan, who was clearly suicidal, was finally stopped by four 9mm rounds. He (unfortunately) survived as a paraplegic.
There are plenty of debates regarding the Five-seveN as a "viable" personal defense handgun. By personal defense, what we really mean is how effective is the weapon against human targets. Since the public does not have ready access to anti-personnel performance of the Five-seveN by the Secret Service or other government/LE agencies, the Fort Hood massacre is really the only source of data available. And it answers many questions that ballistic gel cannot and really should put the argument to rest.
- As expected, shot placement matters. This implies that a firearm that is easier to shoot on target will be more deadly than one that is difficult to control, REGARDLESS of caliber.
- Any bullet that can shatter a bone will stop an attacker. In the oft-repeated hypothetical scenario of a drugged and unstoppable assailant high on PCP or some other anesthetizing drug, even if he cannot feel pain, he cannot continue to charge with a shattered leg.
- The Fort Hood incident is notable in that four individuals charged the shooter, and all were stopped before they could reach him. For stopping power, the Five-seveN was 100% effective. And if anyone were to argue that those attempting to stop and disarm Hasan were sober, I submit that a US Army soldier, motivated to save the lives of others without regard to personal safety and acting on that motivation, is as physically difficult to stop as any human may be.
Stopping power is often equated with a round's ability to instantaneously kill a human. Stopping power in reality is the ability of a round to stop a human from attacking, and lethality is not inherently a part of stopping an attack. I selected the Five-seveN after becoming convinced from available data (most notably the above massacre) that the 5.7x28 round is at least as effective as a 9mm (and probably more so) and noting that it is easier to put rounds quickly on target with the 5.7x28 than any other available pistol round with the exception of subsonic match grade .22LR. It is very tragic that a psychotic employed a weapon as lethal as the Five-seveN to commit such an atrocity. And it leaves no question as to the lethality or stopping power of the Five-seveN.
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Re: Ft. Hood
kismetcapitan wrote:ShockedNKansas wrote:T
There are plenty of debates regarding the Five-seveN as a "viable" personal defense handgun. By personal defense, what we really mean is how effective is the weapon against human targets. Since the public does not have ready access to anti-personnel performance of the Five-seveN by the Secret Service or other government/LE agencies, the Fort Hood massacre is really the only source of data available. And it answers many questions that ballistic gel cannot and really should put the argument to rest.
.
Actually there are hundreds almost thousands of reports from south of the boarder. The FsN is the preferred gun of the drug cartels and is used to kill peolpe daily.
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Re: Ft. Hood
Exactly! It boggles my mind when someone calls it a toy, a plinker, or an overpriced .22. If those who commit violent crimes are hip to the lethality of the Five-seveN, it most certainly is more than enough for lawful use in self defense, home invasion, or stopping an extremely violent crime in progress.panzermk2 wrote:kismetcapitan wrote:ShockedNKansas wrote:T
There are plenty of debates regarding the Five-seveN as a "viable" personal defense handgun. By personal defense, what we really mean is how effective is the weapon against human targets. Since the public does not have ready access to anti-personnel performance of the Five-seveN by the Secret Service or other government/LE agencies, the Fort Hood massacre is really the only source of data available. And it answers many questions that ballistic gel cannot and really should put the argument to rest.
.
Actually there are hundreds almost thousands of reports from south of the boarder. The FsN is the preferred gun of the drug cartels and is used to kill peolpe daily.
Re: Ft. Hood
But wait I can just post the same thread about small caliber PDW's from the Doc and it's all over :|
Last edited by Buffman on 04 Jan 2014, 10:03, edited 1 time in total.
- Rapier1772
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Re: Ft. Hood
You mean the dentist data from 20ys ago?
You forgot the sarcasm font
You forgot the sarcasm font
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Re: Ft. Hood
That's pink right?
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Re: Ft. Hood
I just looked at that thread. It's strange, that's for certain. Lots of people citing this test or that test. No one citing the available data on 5.7 performance against humans
Or perhaps their biases lead them to ignore the anti-personnel performance of one cowardly psychiatrist with little handgun experience, armed with a FsN. In the hands of a trained operator highly motivated to protect, it logically will be equally if not more lethal.
Or perhaps their biases lead them to ignore the anti-personnel performance of one cowardly psychiatrist with little handgun experience, armed with a FsN. In the hands of a trained operator highly motivated to protect, it logically will be equally if not more lethal.
- Rapier1772
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Re: Ft. Hood
Yeah but just use the sarcasm button, it will take care of the coloring.Buffman wrote:That's pink right?
Although perthonally, I'd have gone for a lighter shade. :laugh:
How to post pics & videos: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6363
Contrary to popular belief, you CAN fix stupid - it's just illegal.
Re: Ft. Hood
http://www.stripes.com/news/army-to-awa ... s-1.328220" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;WASHINGTON — The Army announced Friday that it will award the Purple Heart and its civilian counterpart, the Secretary of Defense Medal for the Defense of Freedom, to victims of a 2009 shooting at Fort Hood, Texas.
For Those Who Came Home...
For Those Who Did Not Come Home...
For Those Who Have Yet To Come Home...
For Those Who Did Not Come Home...
For Those Who Have Yet To Come Home...
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Re: Ft. Hood
About effing time. It should have been awarded from the get go. Hopefully the special benefits that go along with the award will help some of those families.Ditch wrote:http://www.stripes.com/news/army-to-awa ... s-1.328220" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;WASHINGTON — The Army announced Friday that it will award the Purple Heart and its civilian counterpart, the Secretary of Defense Medal for the Defense of Freedom, to victims of a 2009 shooting at Fort Hood, Texas.
- jgreenberg01
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Re: Ft. Hood
Wait, does this mean this was more than your typical workplace violence by an individual screaming allahu akbar?
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