KSG release update

The section for big boomers.

Shotgun of Choice?

FN SLP
4
15%
KEL-TEC KSG
8
30%
MOSSBERG 590A1
3
11%
REMINGTON 870
4
15%
BENELLI M3 SUPER 90
8
30%
 
Total votes: 27

toyslr
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Re: KSG release update

Post by toyslr » 18 Jan 2012, 13:21

Don't know! Had seen pictures but wasn't a fan...

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Rapier1772
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Re: KSG release update

Post by Rapier1772 » 18 Jan 2012, 13:35

Cyberfly wrote:I'm just curious...what ever happened to the Monolith Arms P12?
IIRC Monolith got bought out by Magpul & Magpul backed out of making the P12s. Or at least that is what I read on here.

Have you tried the Tactical Search function? :p
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Re: KSG release update

Post by FNtacticalNUT » 24 Jan 2012, 16:53

I like the KSG. It is smooth and very solid. The prices are just out of this world.
The demand is there for the KSG. There are over 10,000 on backorder. So that said it should be full force to produce them. They released 250 on 12-23-11 and have been letting a few more go. If they would ramp up production then it would be sky's the limit on profits.
But what really pisses me off is that we have all reserved our KSG.s and prepaid for a reserved one and the few dealers that get them do not fill the customers orders and are listing them for sell on GUNBROKER for high profits. It really shows the ethics and morals of these gun dealers. Why not fullfill the reserve orders before personal greed

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Re: KSG release update

Post by cHaMeLeoN352 » 24 Jan 2012, 17:18

FNtacticalNUT wrote:... It really shows the ethics and morals of these gun dealers. Why not fullfill the reserve orders before personal greed
:agree:

While I believe they had some R&D problems with the trigger and action, it seems to me they created a lot of hype and then a shortage of the item, which caused an increase in demand and price in a shady marketing strategy.

Personally, I don't understand all the hype, as I would rather a saiga-12 for less, which is a more tested platform and has more accessories.

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Re: KSG release update

Post by blueorison » 24 Jan 2012, 17:34

FNtacticalNUT wrote:I like the KSG. It is smooth and very solid. The prices are just out of this world.
The demand is there for the KSG. There are over 10,000 on backorder. So that said it should be full force to produce them. They released 250 on 12-23-11 and have been letting a few more go. If they would ramp up production then it would be sky's the limit on profits.
But what really pisses me off is that we have all reserved our KSG.s and prepaid for a reserved one and the few dealers that get them do not fill the customers orders and are listing them for sell on GUNBROKER for high profits. It really shows the ethics and morals of these gun dealers. Why not fullfill the reserve orders before personal greed
I'm just quoting, I'm not going to give an opinion in this matter, so don't shoot the messenger!

"It's Capitalism. People will pay that because they want to, and the sellers will profit, because it's a free-enterprise. Ain't nothin wrong with that".

I always believe in balance. Even in Capitalism. It's a personal choice, I don't think everyone and their mom has to follow my personal choice. So ya'll can all chill out. :)

And uhhh are you kidding? The shotgun poll up there is a joke. I would pick the M3 but it's not the same price-category as the $900 SLP.

The SLP by far wins the poll. The M3 would be tied if it were the same price, but it isn't.
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Re: KSG release update

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 25 Jan 2012, 00:41

M3 has pump mode selector.. doesn't seem like its in the same category as the SLP, maybe they should have put the M4 instead as its the newer platform from Benelli. I have both and they are two completely different animals... M3 comes across as a no-holds-barred magnum riot gun with a full length barrel, all it needs is a bayonette on the end of it... whereas the M4 with the skeleton stock feels lighter, shorter, and more agile to close-quarters stuff.

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Re: KSG release update

Post by toyslr » 25 Jan 2012, 11:43

FNtacticalNUT:

The problem is the IDIOT dealers who advertised them at cost or just above before they knew the production numbers to get deposits and orders for a weapon, they will not be able to obtain.

"It really shows the ethics and morals of these gun dealers."

So in a debate about ethics and morals who is right or wrong: Dealers who sell something they can't get at an adverstised price they can't do? Or a dealer that has the connections to obtain the weapons selling what he can to make money?

I listed the one I had at $1,000 to start! If you take retail plus tax in most areas that is about $40-$60.00 more. I didn't put a reserve on it and let it go where it might fall. DOES that make me unethical or immoral? don't really care what your response is because I know that I have sold many weapons to members on here at or below cost and have had nothing but positive feedback. Your dealer that offered you the weapon at $675-800.00 when cost is on the low end of that is the problem because now they don't want to live up to their B.S.


By the way I have 3 more of these coming in the next month...

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Re: KSG release update

Post by blueorison » 25 Jan 2012, 12:35

^

Toys is right.

On the other end of the spectrum you have (not saying you are one of them, FNTac) really whiny consumers who think they should be charged a certain price because they KNOW this is the price dealers get the guns for and in their mind the only fair kind of markup is 5% or some low number. What they fail to do is KNOW everything behind the scenes. Again, I'm not pointing fingers, just sharing my experience :cya:

The dealer/gun shop owner is the one running the shop. It's his shop. He has to move inventory, and sometimes it just doesn't happen even though he lowers his prices. So he's losing money. If he knows that people are looking for a certain gun and he has it, marks it up 20% to recover what he has lost on the other guns, that's him trying to survive as a businessman. It's not him being "unfair".

I have literally paid $50 and gotten ripped off at my good friends' shop that he owns, for a gun transfer. I didn't say a word to it, smiled, and left. This is because I know he's my friend and I want to support him, it's not about ME at all. This is coming from an unwealthy person who eats ramen for dinner. I'm sure others can relate. Later, he gave me cash back because his employee incorrectly charged me, but I told him to keep it, because he has helped me out in the past.

I have not once, seen ANY dealer on our forum, try to rip ANYONE off. In fact, it's the direct OPPOSITE. Toys, A&A, etc. have posted deals in the past before that I just shook my head at because I, like everyone else, wish I had the cash.

When you DO meet an arse of a salesman that IS trying to rip you off, it's pretty obvious. :lmao:
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Re: KSG release update

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 25 Jan 2012, 14:58

I like capitolism, so I'm going to wait until these things are old news, or someone comes out with something better. Wouldn't everyone who paid through the nose for a Kel Tec look ridiculous if they release a semi-auto version of the KSG at the 2013 Shot Show, or someone else like FN comes out with a twin-tube design.

Whoop Whooop Waaaaaaaaa.....

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Re: KSG release update

Post by toyslr » 25 Jan 2012, 15:09

If FN came out with one it'll be triple the price!!

;)

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Re: KSG release update

Post by f3rr37 » 25 Jan 2012, 21:45

blueorison wrote:I'm just quoting, I'm not going to give an opinion in this matter, so don't shoot the messenger!

"It's Capitalism. People will pay that because they want to, and the sellers will profit, because it's a free-enterprise. Ain't nothin wrong with that".

I always believe in balance. Even in Capitalism. It's a personal choice, I don't think everyone and their mom has to follow my personal choice. So ya'll can all chill out. :)
It isn't Capitalism when you enter an agreement with someone to deliver them a product and then turn around and sell it out from under them to someone else at a higher price... it is greed.

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Re: KSG release update

Post by flyingirish04 » 25 Jan 2012, 22:25

Balanced capitalism is nothing more than allowing the free market to balance itself out. Any limitation or manipulation of that is a form of plutocracy, oligarchy, or Marxism. Using militant force to sway a market or consumer attitudes is fascism.

And fuzzy is right, breech of contract is when you agree to sell for one price to someone, but then welch on the deal to sell for more to someone else. That isn't capitalism.
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Re: KSG release update

Post by blueorison » 25 Jan 2012, 22:35

flyingirish04 wrote:Balanced capitalism is nothing more than allowing the free market to balance itself out. Any limitation or manipulation of that is a form of plutocracy, oligarchy, or Marxism. Using militant force to sway a market or consumer attitudes is fascism.

And fuzzy is right, breech of contract is when you agree to sell for one price to someone, but then welch on the deal to sell for more to someone else. That isn't capitalism.
That was my point. It starts with a personal choice.

Often that choice is greed.

That is why I have so much respect for some of our forum sponsors, by the way they carry their business and their person.
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Re: KSG release update

Post by flyingirish04 » 25 Jan 2012, 22:43

Not only does it start with choice, it further enables choice and freedom. A free market is infinitely able to self correct because it puts the power,in the hands of the consumer. Pretty cool.
Killed Two Stones with One Bird.

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Re: KSG release update

Post by toyslr » 26 Jan 2012, 08:52

"It isn't Capitalism when you enter an agreement with someone to deliver them a product and then turn around and sell it out from under them to someone else at a higher price... it is greed."
Guess maybe you should look at who your doing business with! And realize that if it looks to good to be true, then it probably is. If this deal was done on a handshake, then its a trust issue. If this person had money down and the deal in writing, then it becomes a contract issue. Sorry but I NEVER trust someones word when it comes to my money.
Dealers on the web have been posting these shotguns for sale @ $625.00 for a year. That's $50.00 over cost and RIDICULOUS! Its like being a forum sponsor here and certain other sellers dumping weapons for $20-$30 over cost, my time and the potential legal aspect of the gun businessis worth more than that to me. If they won't to whore out weapons and make $20-$30 bucks then have at it. I WILL not lie to you or B.S. you in a business deal and those that I have done business with KNOW that but I also expect to make a fair and reasonable profit for my time.

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Re: KSG release update

Post by FNtacticalNUT » 26 Jan 2012, 12:31

Look I was not saying that anyone here was being unethical. I was just stating in general. I was not trying to insult TOY or even single him out. I am just stating that I know several dealers that have put them on GUNBROKER when they got them instead of passing them to the people that they are promised to and at the price promised.
That is what being a man is about. My father use to always say that you are only as good as your word. When you do a deal it is done win or lose. If these idiot dealers promised the guns and have deposits then they need to fill the order. The MSRP is $880 and dealer cost is $560. Thats way more than 5%. This is what I am talking about when I state a message about personal greed when they are selling them for those prices instead of filling orders. I have been running my Mechanical business for 12 years and yes I do know how to make a profit to stay in business but I also know how to run an honest and ethical business and when I give my word it is just that.
If these dealers do not have any reserves then free market is fair. But when you have reserves and they are selling them at these prices is a breach of contract.
I am sorry if toyslr thought I was talking about him but I was speaking in general.

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Re: KSG release update

Post by blueorison » 26 Jan 2012, 12:44

Alright guys, let's get back to the thread.

:thumb:
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Re: KSG release update

Post by Thedirtyheat » 26 Jan 2012, 13:50

I most definitely need 15 rounds just incase I miss with the first 14... Yes it's cool but to me not really any more practical then any preparing forthe zombie apacolypse. Or then having this shotgun in your collection. http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/prod ... s_id/74699" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: KSG release update

Post by Llagoud » 26 Jan 2012, 14:37

Word has it on the street that kel-tec is adding 12.5k square feet to their facility.

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Re: KSG release update

Post by SeaHawkDriver-B » 18 Feb 2012, 06:25

After seeing this gun in person I think there is going to be a lot of initial hype over it from people who like the idea of a bull-pup, and then it will fade away in a couple years.

The manual of arms is entirely different than a traditional pump. A lot of people are going to grab one of these things for beaucoup bucks and then realize they absolutely suck at shooting and loading it, there is zero muscle-memory to start from, aside from pulling the trigger. I fumbled over the action several times searching for the correct button(s). The pump release is not intuitive, neither is the tube switch mechanism, neither is the loading gate(s), assuming you even know which load gate your shell is actually going into. On a pistol grip-weapon I'm used-to a thumb safety such as on an AR, but guess what, its a cross-bolt like on a non-pistol gripped weapon, and its not on top of the receiver like a mossy. I'd guess it would take me at least 5-10 trips to the range to even begin to not look like a complete idiot cycling it, and then of course if you're going to rely on your more traditional shotguns for other tasks, lets hope your muscle memory knows just which shotgun you're using in a stressful situation.

It also feels a lot like a kel tec, very light, polymer everywhere, stamped/welded parts, and tolerences which are nowhere near what the old fuddy-duddy Ed Brown 1911 fanboys are used to. So when I see mainstream 1911-owning folks going bonkers over it at the counter, I have to step back and wonder just how long their temporary insanity is going to last, becuase absoutely every single thing about this firearms goes directly against what they tend to like. And then once people realize that the thousands of hours they have behind a traditional pump or auto add up to Jack-squat in terms of their ability to opearte it without thinking about it, it may be a turning point in their decision to keep it.

On the other hand, I think there is a huge market for this gun for both mall ninjas and mainstream shooters alike that are willing to practice with it. But then, how often do you really see guys with 100rds of buckshot practicing in the pistol lanes? I see one every now and then, but its rare, and some places don't even allow it.

My guess is that the first couple hundred thousand of these things will sell like hotcakes and find their way to the gotta have-it crowd, and the gun hoarders / 2A paranoid crowd that maintain massive arsenals of dust-collecting "everythings", never to see the light of day. The next batch might find its way into the more mainstream shooters, and thats when you're going to start hear the critisism of the weapon pop up. Its not the best thing since sliced bread, its a kel tec that shoots 14 bullets, and the used ones are going to start showing up for sale.

Just my .02 :)

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