FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Discuss the FN lineup of tactical rifles; the FS2000, SCAR, and the venerable FAL.
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by fooschnickens » 28 May 2010, 18:36

It's a bullpup. They all have wonky triggers.
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by drcoffee » 06 Jun 2010, 17:51

So making the trigger smoother and lighter is what I have been working on. The AUG has a 10.75# trigger and I have been able to lower it to 8.5#. On my MSAR STG556 I have dropped the trigger from 8.5# to 6#. And just for fun I have shown that my STG will fire reliably with no reset issues at 3#s. Take a look at these videos.













I'm having the parts machined right now for the AUG and I need to buy a hammer group for the FS2000 for testing. I know this will also help the FN rifle. If someone can point me to a supplier for hammer packs, I would appreciate it.

In order to lower the pull 2+ Lbs I have not weakened the springs one bit. The point was to make a mod that maintains the safety of the rifle and improve the trigger at the same time. There's a good thread I started at AR15.com in the Bullpup section if you'd like to follow the progress. I'm trying to keep the price to $20 and so far it looks good.

To get to 3# you need something to reduce the spring tension. But at 3#s the rifle only takes a slap on the butt to discharge. This would good for benchrest but terrible for anything else.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by ninthinning » 07 Jun 2010, 19:02

drcoffee,
That is very interesting work you are doing. I am planning on buying an FS2000 but I am hesitant after reading the reviews on the web. It sounds like the trigger is a real kludge. I have seen pictures of the hammer group and it looks like the PS90 hammer group. The problem I see is the auto sear has been removed at the factory. If it still had the auto sear it would be possible to grind off the bolt trip and use the sear as a hammer sear by connecting it to the trigger. That would allow you to lighten the disconnector springs and hammer springs and should give a trigger pull weight of 4.5 pounds.
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by drcoffee » 07 Jun 2010, 19:45

ninthinning wrote:drcoffee,
That is very interesting work you are doing. I am planning on buying an FS2000 but I am hesitant after reading the reviews on the web. It sounds like the trigger is a real kludge. I have seen pictures of the hammer group and it looks like the PS90 hammer group. The problem I see is the auto sear has been removed at the factory. If it still had the auto sear it would be possible to grind off the bolt trip and use the sear as a hammer sear by connecting it to the trigger. That would allow you to lighten the disconnector springs and hammer springs and should give a trigger pull weight of 4.5 pounds.
9th
I was originally of the mindset that softer springs would be the solution until it resulted in malfunctions ranging from reset issues to doubles which gets you a free ride in the squad car. I've seen guys shave the hammer spur too. All these make for a dangerous firearm. These bullpups require heavy springs to keep them from going bang at the wrong time. It's possible to get a soft trigger but the mass and design of the sear takes very little force to move it backward when bumped or dropped. With my product, I achieved a 6# trigger on my STG (8# trigger with an AUG hammer group) and I was able to drop the gun on the buttstock from 6-8" onto concrete and it did not discharge. Cool, eh? I need a video of that. Anyway, the fix also has to incorporate the safety factors designed originally by FNH and not just an end result. I did find out that FN does sell the hammer group for $258 and its in stock for anyone who wants to buy this part before a ban is enacted.

Is this the current hammer group for the FS2000?
Image

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by RaYhoLio » 08 Jun 2010, 07:11

Just took a bunch of pics of my Fs2000 internals.. I'll see if I can figure out how to post 'em

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by RaYhoLio » 08 Jun 2010, 07:38

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I'd also be very interestd to know if these trigger packs have been changed in the same way the PS-90s were... if not, I might want to buy up some of the packs.. because mine has the same 'ability' as the older PS-90 packs... And if it hasn't been modified yet... it will be.

-Ray

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by ninthinning » 08 Jun 2010, 07:47

Nice pictures. That might pretty simple to turn into a light two stage semi-automatic trigger. That would really increase the accuracy.
Thank you,
9th
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by f3rr37 » 08 Jun 2010, 08:05

RaYhoLio wrote:I'd also be very interestd to know if these trigger packs have been changed in the same way the PS-90s were... if not, I might want to buy up some of the packs.. because mine has the same 'ability' as the older PS-90 packs... And if it hasn't been modified yet... it will be.

-Ray
This is a warning to tread lightly with statements like that, illegal modifications will result in removal from the forum.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by RaYhoLio » 08 Jun 2010, 08:39

f3rr37 wrote: This is a warning to tread lightly with statements like that, illegal modifications will result in removal from the forum.
No worries.. There will be no discussion of illegal modifications in open forum from me... Anyhow I was referring more to its collectibility as an investment.. I'm sure you've heard of dealer post samples? The people and business's who can legally make a post sample are very interested in the old PS-90 packs now.. making them a great investment... I was just curious if newer Fs-2000 have the same design as mine... I think mine is at least a few years old.. but since I got it used... I dunno for sure.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by f3rr37 » 08 Jun 2010, 08:47

RaYhoLio wrote:
f3rr37 wrote: This is a warning to tread lightly with statements like that, illegal modifications will result in removal from the forum.
No worries.. There will be no discussion of illegal modifications in open forum from me...
Open forum or behind the scenes in PMs, it will not be tolerated anywhere on the forum.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by RaYhoLio » 08 Jun 2010, 09:04

Gosh.. I'd kinda like to start up another topic about the effectivness of bans on information and dangerous things .. but I won't get into that here.

LOL again.. no worries.. I'm in no hurry to become an accomplis to a firearms crime.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by f3rr37 » 08 Jun 2010, 09:09

RaYhoLio wrote:Gosh.. I'd kinda like to start up another topic about the effectivness of bans on information and dangerous things .. but I won't get into that here.

LOL again.. no worries.. I'm in no hurry to become an accomplis to a firearms crime.
Thank you.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by drcoffee » 16 Jul 2010, 15:39

I have a product that has truely done wonders for the Steyr AUG and the FS2000 has a very similar hammer group. The result so far is 3/4 Lbs lighter trigger pull and significantly smoother pull. The part is called neu-trigger and can be found with a google search. On the AUG I've been able to lower the pull weight by 2+ Lbs. This can be installed permanently but removed at any time to go back to the stock configuration.

For those of you looking for a more permanent change, Look at cutting 2 or 3 coils from each trigger spring at the forward end. Cut one coil from each and test in between until you like the pull weight. Since these hammer groups are riveted together, there's only so much you can do.

All I can say is wow! those are some strong trigger springs. :skep:

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by RaYhoLio » 16 Jul 2010, 15:57

drcoffee wrote:I have a product that has truely done wonders for the Steyr AUG and the FS2000 has a very similar hammer group. The result so far is 3/4 Lbs lighter trigger pull and significantly smoother pull. The part is called neu-trigger and can be found with a google search. On the AUG I've been able to lower the pull weight by 2+ Lbs. This can be installed permanently but removed at any time to go back to the stock configuration.

For those of you looking for a more permanent change, Look at cutting 2 or 3 coils from each trigger spring at the forward end. Cut one coil from each and test in between until you like the pull weight. Since these hammer groups are riveted together, there's only so much you can do.

All I can say is wow! those are some strong trigger springs. :skep:
Are you a forum sponsor now?? :)

There's nothing riveted in this hammer group....
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by drcoffee » 16 Jul 2010, 16:13

Actually, no. But I'm not selling them for the FS2000 yet. I'm looking for volunteers to test them.

So answer this. Can you push out the pivot pins or not? You sound certain that it has no rivets.

Those silver rods are the rivets.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by RaYhoLio » 16 Jul 2010, 16:15

Yep... check the pics above... those are pins.. not rivets.

I'm not exactly sure how your mod would work... but there are at least 2 different (yet similar) hammer packs for the F2000... might require different mod kits.
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by f3rr37 » 16 Jul 2010, 16:37

drcoffee wrote:Actually, no. But I'm not selling them for the FS2000 yet. I'm looking for volunteers to test them.
If you wish to sell your product on our forum, we require you to become a forum sponsor. But since you are just searching for volunteers at the moment, I don't have a problem with it. However, before you do decide to start selling, please contact jmz5 about becoming a forum sponsor.

Thanks :)

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by drcoffee » 16 Jul 2010, 16:44

If you look closely at the ends of the pins they have been flattened. These pins have been expanded at their ends so they can't be removed. Technically that makes them rivets. The pins on my part can't be removed.

The part I'm talking about fits the brown plastic sear seen in the above picture. If your sear is different then I would need to rework the part to fit.

Cheers

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by drcoffee » 16 Jul 2010, 16:50

f3rr37 wrote:If you wish to sell your product on our forum, we require you to become a forum sponsor. But since you are just searching for volunteers at the moment, I don't have a problem with it. However, before you do decide to start selling, please contact jmz5 about becoming a forum sponsor.

Thanks :)
Of course. Thank you.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by RaYhoLio » 16 Jul 2010, 16:56

Rivets are perminant... these are not.. These are straight flush push pins.. they are free floating, and neither side is flared in any way.. We are talking about the F2000 trigger group.. right? I don't know much about the AUG.

Those pics above were taken by me, and I'm purty well familure with the trigger group now... this thing can dissasemble completely without the use of tools in about 5 minutes...
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by RaYhoLio » 16 Jul 2010, 17:05

I'l tell ya.. after putting more rounds thru my F2000... I think the MAIN problem with the trigger is the depth of pull... Practice a drill where you pull the trigger, and then release it just enough to hear a 'click' and then pull again.. When I do this, I'm QUITE happy with the F2000's trigger... It could be ligher still... but it's really not as abysmol as people say.... It just needs proper trigger technique..

wanna try this at home? Clear your rifle or pistol.. make sure it's unloaded.. this is no time to guess.... point it in a safe direction, and pull the trigger as if aiming at a target... After the hammer releases, Keep the trigger held down, and use your other hand to cock the firearm again..... Then reassume your shooting stance, and let off of the trigger just until you feel / hear the click... then pull again. Practicing this tecnique has dramatically improved my shot consistancy, and understanding of my trigger's limitations.
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by drcoffee » 16 Jul 2010, 17:14

Interesting. I purchased the hammer group directly from FNH for the FS2000 and it looks identical to yours but my pins are flared and they would have to be hammered out. Mine won't budge. The ends are slightly larger than the pin itself. Maybe the earlier units are different. I would lke to see yours disassembled. How did you get the disconnector pin out? It's pinned in place from underneath (the black pin in the oval cutout in the picture below).

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If you look at the sear, it has the neu-trigger installed. This is what smooths out the trigger pull very effectively.

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Personally, for $2,000 you shouldn't have to tollerate at crappy trigger. Maybe on a saturday night special but not on a $2,000 gun. In a panic situation your fine motor skills disappear. I'm less forgiving than you. Too bad you don't live closer. I like to show you the difference I've made with the AUG. These hammer groups would be great if you could make the pull weight adjustable.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by Rapier1772 » 16 Jul 2010, 20:23

drcoffee, since you've been ok'ed by the f3rr37 I'd volunteer to help test them. I don't know if my trigger pack is riveted or pinned but I know it has the brown sear. What do you need of your text subjects? I'll see if I can help
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by RaYhoLio » 16 Jul 2010, 20:38

Yeah.. wierd.. I've not seen that version... would it be possible to replace the riveted pins with bar-stock pins?

every pin on mine is 'loose' and can be slid right out.. I've checked 'em just now to make sure.... it is an earlier model.
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by drcoffee » 22 Jul 2010, 14:23

Initial test on an FS2000 is promising. One forum member has contacted me with positive results.

"FS2000

Install: Piece of cake, took me less than two minutes to install.

Trigger Weight:

Before: 5.75 Kg (12 lbs.)

After: 4.5 Kg (9.5 - 10 lbs)

Trigger Feel:

Before: The trigger had a long travel and had a very rough gritty feel to it. By the end of the travel, your finger is fatigued and it feels like a 12 lbs trigger. I was very surprised at the 5.75 trigger weight. I thought the bad trigger was the worst feature of the FS2000.

After: What a difference! The trigger feels incredibly smooth like it’s skating on ice. The long travel is still there but it is buttery smooth. Before the Neu-Trigger, I used to love the PS90 trigger. Now it makes the PS90 trigger feel like crap.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by marrandy » 23 Sep 2010, 18:46

Anyone else tried the Neu Trigger ?

How about some more reports !

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by Rapier1772 » 23 Sep 2010, 18:58

I just got mine. I haven't had a chance to actually fire with it but dry fires are certainly better. It does not really reduce the pull weight or length but it does make it a lot smoother.
Well, for the pull weight, it is a smoother movement (plastic sliding across metal instead of plastic sliding across plastic) so there is less friction to overcome therefore it is probably a little less pull weight. :ponder:
I am eager to try it out at the range
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by blueorison » 24 Sep 2010, 00:08

drcoffee wrote:Initial test on an FS2000 is promising. One forum member has contacted me with positive results.

"FS2000

Install: Piece of cake, took me less than two minutes to install.

Trigger Weight:

Before: 5.75 Kg (12 lbs.)

After: 4.5 Kg (9.5 - 10 lbs)

Trigger Feel:

Before: The trigger had a long travel and had a very rough gritty feel to it. By the end of the travel, your finger is fatigued and it feels like a 12 lbs trigger. I was very surprised at the 5.75 trigger weight. I thought the bad trigger was the worst feature of the FS2000.

After: What a difference! The trigger feels incredibly smooth like it’s skating on ice. The long travel is still there but it is buttery smooth. Before the Neu-Trigger, I used to love the PS90 trigger. Now it makes the PS90 trigger feel like crap.
Dr. Coffee, what about the video where you lower it down dramatically to about 2 lbs? Is this possible with all your trigger groups for any gun?
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by drcoffee » 24 Sep 2010, 03:04

You can lower the pull weight on the Steyr AUG by relaxing the trigger spring. On the FS2000 you would need to either find springs with a lower rate (Wolf springs) or you can cut a coil at a time from both springs until you reach the point you like the pull weight. The latter is permanent though. The concern with this gun is the inertia of the sear if you bump the buttstock. You could release the hammer without pulling the trigger. The twin springs keep the hammer cocked. I probably wouldn't set it below 7# for safety sake.

And removing one spring will be too soft. Never mind the asymetrical forces on the parts.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by blueorison » 24 Sep 2010, 03:30

:thumb:
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by fooschnickens » 27 Sep 2010, 22:29

drcoffee wrote:Image
Sure am glad there's at least one person out there who knows what's going on inside these things. I, myself, am completely clueless. I just assume there are some distant cousins of the refrigerator gnomes inside with little hammers or something happily clanging away every time you pull the trigger.
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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by xslice » 19 Jan 2014, 18:45

Has anyone been successful in taking out the trigger bar without splitting the cases? In the FN Manual it states to break down the weapon take the bar out of the trigger, remove the trigger then cross the bars in the rear and pull out. I have tried this numerous times but each time the rod gets stuck.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by ShootingSight » 21 Feb 2015, 07:52

It seems the discussion about pins or rivets is an old one, though I never saw a conclusion posted.

The bottom line answer is that there are some pins which slide out, and the pin that joins the trigger to the disconnector has a pin in it that has an internal shoulder cut, so after it is in, there is a very small metal retaining pin that is inserted into a blind hole in the disconnector that locks it in there. So no, it is not a rivet, but functionally I have not found an easy way to get it out without breaking something.

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Re: FS 2000 Trigger Pull

Post by panzermk2 » 21 Feb 2015, 10:12

Figures, I hate when manufactures do that. It's a sign of lazy engineering.
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