Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

General discussion.

When conceal carrying, do you prefer:

Hammer cocked, with a round in the chamber
24
46%
Hammer de-cocked, round in the chamber (double action pistols)
24
46%
Hammer de-cocked, no round in the chamber
4
8%
 
Total votes: 52

Raveren
Junior Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 23 Apr 2012, 06:16
Location: Tallahassee

Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Raveren » 24 Apr 2012, 08:04

This thread will attempt to discuss the possible states that various users choose to carry their firearms in, and the pros and cons of these options. Obviously, this is debate in which many may have strong feelings about, so respect and reasonable discussion above all else.

User avatar
Rapier1772
Global Moderator
Posts: 12162
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 09:00
Location: American Falls, ID

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Rapier1772 » 24 Apr 2012, 09:40

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9618" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2550" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And don't forget, state laws may apply.
Contrary to popular belief, you CAN fix stupid - it's just illegal.
Tactical Search Instructions & tips: http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12045

User avatar
flyingirish04
Gold Member
Posts: 4783
Joined: 25 Aug 2008, 21:42
custom title: Mtn Man in Flatland
Location: Great Plains, USA

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by flyingirish04 » 24 Apr 2012, 09:52

Unless not allowed by law, I always have one in the chamber. The only weapon I 'cock and lock' is my 1911. Otherwise, DA pistols, hammer is down.
Killed Two Stones with One Bird.

User avatar
Cyberfly
Global Moderator
Posts: 10605
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 18:44
custom title: Mens Room Attendant
Location: SE OKlahoma

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Cyberfly » 24 Apr 2012, 10:00

+1
Never confuse 'The will of the Majority' with 'The will of God'.
**This post created with 100% recycled photons!**

toyslr
Senior Member
Posts: 2020
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 09:56
Location: Cypress, Texas
Contact:

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by toyslr » 24 Apr 2012, 10:16

Unloaded weapon is nothing put a paperweight....or a club

Raveren
Junior Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 23 Apr 2012, 06:16
Location: Tallahassee

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Raveren » 24 Apr 2012, 10:25

Rapier1772 wrote:viewtopic.php?f=15&t=9618
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2550" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And don't forget, state laws may apply.
Both threads good, the second one more so.

I was unaware that certain jurisdictions restrict carrying with a round in the chamber. Here in Florida I believe we are allowed to carry with a round chambered. Regardless, the law seems a bit difficult to reinforce.

I feel that the attitude that a round must be in the chamber is partly due to the way confrontational situations involving guns is portrayed in popular culture/movies etc.

Now I choose to carry WITHOUT a round chambered (partly because the only guns I have right now are single action trigger pulls) but because pistols are inadvertently mechanical, meaning failures of the mechanical nature can still occur, leading to accidents.

I feel that, god forbid should I ever have to draw, I feel that I would be able to work the slide quickly enough to defend myself from an armed threat. After all, many people who carry with a round chambered must still disengage their safeties instead of having to rack the slide, which also leaves room for error and eats up precious seconds.

toyslr
Senior Member
Posts: 2020
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 09:56
Location: Cypress, Texas
Contact:

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by toyslr » 24 Apr 2012, 11:28

I feel that the attitude that a round must be in the chamber is partly due to the way confrontational situations involving guns is portrayed in popular culture/movies etc.
Not exactly! A person within 7-10 feet of you can close that distance BEFORE you can draw and or charge your weapon. PERIOD end of sentence! I don't care how much of a gunslinger you are or think you are, it will happen and you will become a victim.

A good friend (thought the same as you) was jumped outside of a nightclub he tended bar at. The attackers got him to the ground and were beating his *** as he tried to draw, they saw the weapon and the 3 of them began struggling for it. The only thing that saved him was that we had worked on charging the weapon off of a stable object (loss of one arm drill) as he charged the pistol on the running board of his truck, the attackers were kicking him in the head and body. One dropped down with his knee on his chest and Jason burried the pistol in his ribs and fired twice. His buddy hearing the gun shot decided to beat feet and got two rounds in the back.
Cops were called and 20 minutes later others showed up and placed Jason underarrest for attempted murder! Apparently the thugs went to a near by fire department and said someone had tried to rob and car jack them. The only thing that saved hims was a video tape of the attack and the fact that we had palyed around at the range with a stupid idea of being shot in the arm and "how to you cock your weapon"....

Zhurdan
Member
Posts: 454
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 22:23

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Zhurdan » 24 Apr 2012, 12:03

This can be easily practiced... safely, as well.

Stand at the firing line with an empty gun, holstered.
Have someone (playing bad guy) stand behind you at 7 yards.
When they say go, clear garment and draw from concealment and dry fire (down range of course, away from the person behind you) and see if you can do it before they touch you on the shoulder. (please inform them NOT to run past you)

Like this...

Bad guy----------->> Good guy------------>> direction of draw and dry fire.


I'd have to see it to believe it for someone to draw, cycle and fire in less than the time it takes for someone to get 7 yards to you. In fact, having practiced the above drill, I've seen very few "gunslingers" who can do it repeatedly and reliably without having to cycle the gun.. I can, but just barely. It almost always ends up a tie and not an extended "aimed" shot, but a retention shot. (from concealment).

A lot of times, people get their "draw to first shot time" when the are anticipating the "beep" confused with the time it takes to actually recognize a threat AS a threat and do the same.

Pair this drill with someone who wants to push your training. If they're smart and helpful to the end result, they'll let you sit there waiting for the "go" signal until they see you're body position change (either out of frustration for waiting, or shaking off the anticipation/relaxing a bit). Then see how much time you have. It's not easy and it's not something I'd want to have to do in a split second (charge the gun)

Zhurdan
Member
Posts: 454
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 22:23

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Zhurdan » 24 Apr 2012, 12:11

Raveren wrote: Now I choose to carry WITHOUT a round chambered (partly because the only guns I have right now are single action trigger pulls) but because pistols are inadvertently mechanical, meaning failures of the mechanical nature can still occur, leading to accidents.

I feel that, god forbid should I ever have to draw, I feel that I would be able to work the slide quickly enough to defend myself from an armed threat. After all, many people who carry with a round chambered must still disengage their safeties instead of having to rack the slide, which also leaves room for error and eats up precious seconds.
Your body is a mechanical devise. What happens if you short stroke the gun? What happens if you fumble the gun? Etc.etc.etc.

Things can be "what if'd" to death. Guns have a mechanical safety on them. Those safeties can be flicked off in a fraction of a second ON THE WAY to the sight picture. That will always be faster than charging the gun.

As far as accidents (ND's)... keep your booger hook off the bang switch and use quality gear (holsters that cover the trigger guard) and the likelihood of the gun going off is far more dependent on the person than the gear.

User avatar
f3rr37
Site Admin
Posts: 14666
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:09

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by f3rr37 » 24 Apr 2012, 12:31


I always carry cocked and locked when the firearm is capable. My LCP has no safety, but i do carry it with a round in the chamber and a holster that covers the trigger.

Llagoud
Senior Member
Posts: 5266
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 08:49
custom title: A is A
Location: Buckthorn Ridge

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Llagoud » 24 Apr 2012, 12:34

:thumb: Thank you. That is the exact video I was searching for to post.

User avatar
f3rr37
Site Admin
Posts: 14666
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:09

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by f3rr37 » 24 Apr 2012, 12:36

Llagoud wrote::thumb: Thank you. That is the exact video I was searching for to post.
Welcome. :)

Raveren
Junior Member
Posts: 16
Joined: 23 Apr 2012, 06:16
Location: Tallahassee

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Raveren » 24 Apr 2012, 13:47

Zhurdan wrote:This can be easily practiced... safely, as well.

Stand at the firing line with an empty gun, holstered.
Have someone (playing bad guy) stand behind you at 7 yards.
When they say go, clear garment and draw from concealment and dry fire (down range of course, away from the person behind you) and see if you can do it before they touch you on the shoulder. (please inform them NOT to run past you)

Like this...

Bad guy----------->> Good guy------------>> direction of draw and dry fire.


I'd have to see it to believe it for someone to draw, cycle and fire in less than the time it takes for someone to get 7 yards to you. In fact, having practiced the above drill, I've seen very few "gunslingers" who can do it repeatedly and reliably without having to cycle the gun.. I can, but just barely. It almost always ends up a tie and not an extended "aimed" shot, but a retention shot. (from concealment).

A lot of times, people get their "draw to first shot time" when the are anticipating the "beep" confused with the time it takes to actually recognize a threat AS a threat and do the same.

Pair this drill with someone who wants to push your training. If they're smart and helpful to the end result, they'll let you sit there waiting for the "go" signal until they see you're body position change (either out of frustration for waiting, or shaking off the anticipation/relaxing a bit). Then see how much time you have. It's not easy and it's not something I'd want to have to do in a split second (charge the gun)
A very good drill to run! definitely think this is an excellent way to test.

User avatar
blueorison
Competition/Training Mod
Posts: 10628
Joined: 11 Apr 2009, 14:28
custom title: UT/EA Pistol Captain
Contact:

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by blueorison » 24 Apr 2012, 17:24

I use no safety.

And no gun.

Carry rocks. If you can't throw them fast enough, you can use them to bash your attacker on your head.

I needn't worry about bashing, though I do practice it. As I can draw and hit the attacker in the face in 1.2 seconds. I also throw very accurate rocks that are less than 1 inch at 100 yds, so I don't need to post repeating threads about the topic over and over again on the forum.

Blue

CHHHHHHHHHHHT

out.
Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
The shooter will always matter more than the gear ever will.
Stop relying on others to do the work for you.
Shoot more, worry less.

User avatar
Rapier1772
Global Moderator
Posts: 12162
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 09:00
Location: American Falls, ID

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Rapier1772 » 24 Apr 2012, 19:43

:lmao: :lmao:
Contrary to popular belief, you CAN fix stupid - it's just illegal.
Tactical Search Instructions & tips: http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12045

The Keymaster
Senior Member
Posts: 546
Joined: 19 Jun 2009, 04:37
custom title: Keeper Of The Keys
Location: Northwest Indiana

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by The Keymaster » 25 Apr 2012, 06:17

We did an interesting drill in a class that I took part in last year. The instructor would stand behind the shooter. The instructor would then tap the shooter on the shoulder, turn and run. The shooter would draw his pistol, and shoot from the hip. The object for the shooter was to hit a paper plate. The shooter would then holster his weapon, and turn to see how far the instructor had run from him in that time. The average distance with 9 shooters and 3 runs per shooter was 22 feet 5 inches.

I have always carried a round in the chamber, and will always do so. This drill reinforced previous training that taught us that we cannot stand still when a threat approaches, and that it imperative to have a round in the chamber. Learning to shoot while moving backward and/or laterally can enhance a persons chances of getting the shot off, but there will never be time to rack the slide in a close threat encounter.

ddouglas
Gold Member
Posts: 522
Joined: 25 Oct 2009, 12:39
Location: Bend, Oregon

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by ddouglas » 25 Apr 2012, 06:33

Keymaster,
I had heard that "21 feet" was the distance a BG could cover before you could draw and fire, but I had never seen anything that described how that number was arrived at, or shown to be true. Thanks for the very enlightening tidbit. I too will now carry with a round in the chamber.

toyslr
Senior Member
Posts: 2020
Joined: 26 Mar 2009, 09:56
Location: Cypress, Texas
Contact:

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by toyslr » 25 Apr 2012, 07:41

Moving to the side or at an angle from the attack increases distance, while making the attacker decide to change their path (also slowing them down)

Llagoud
Senior Member
Posts: 5266
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 08:49
custom title: A is A
Location: Buckthorn Ridge

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Llagoud » 25 Apr 2012, 07:55

:thumb: OODA or in blue's case OODAEC (Observe Orient Decide Act Eat Cookie)

Image

User avatar
Rapier1772
Global Moderator
Posts: 12162
Joined: 20 Aug 2008, 09:00
Location: American Falls, ID

Re: Concealed Carry: round in the chamber, or not?

Post by Rapier1772 » 25 Apr 2012, 08:28

:laugh:
Actually that whole thing gets scrambled if blue has his cookies. There's no telling what will happen first when he's on a rush :laugh:
I still wanna see him do one of his shoots while he's on a cookie rush :lmao:
Contrary to popular belief, you CAN fix stupid - it's just illegal.
Tactical Search Instructions & tips: http://www.fivesevenforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12045

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest