Lacquer coating solution
Moderator: Grantness
Re: Lacquer coating solution
The August 13th, 2007 issue of Science Daily carried an article that described the amazing lubrication properties of boric acid--the active friction-reducing ingredient in Nano-Oil. Less friction than teflon.... For those of you who know about Nano-Oil, does it "dry"? That is, if coated on a surface, will the liquid carrier evaporate and leave a "dry" film? If so, some Nano-Oil on the 5.7 cases might prove to be a suitable coating for use in the PS90. Hummmm...
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
Here is what works for me, I take a large stainless bowl and fill it with water and bring to a rolling boil on our gas range. After water is rolling well I drop in my brass 3 to 4 hundred at a time when the water comes back to roll I time it for 30 minutes. At time I pour it through a strainer and then roll it in a clean towel and air dry. Next the brass gets placed into a vibrating case cleaner with walnut media for 48 hours +/-. this leaves cery little coating on the cases and cleans the interior very nicely also. I am using Hornady unique lube (I think its mink oil) to resize, then its back into the vibrator for 20mins to clean and I load them as normal......MY AR57 shoots these very well no loading problems and no feed problems ( I dismantle my mags after each shooting outing , well more or less, ) GOOD LUCK ALL. :guns:
Re: Lacquer coating solution
It has been awhile - but to make a long story short, the Hornady folks had my resizing die for a few months and after a few discussions they ended up polishing the die to remove the taper which provide a diameter of approximately 0.312” from top to bottom.
I resized about 50 cases and they measure approximately 0.312” +/-0.0005 in diameter from bottom to top (very straight). I snapped a picture showing the comparison of the original factory die with the modified die – the case wall taper is obvious. I have loaded/unloaded a PS90 mag with 50 of the new resized cases about 5 times and it has worked fine, no hang-up or binding as before. Also, manually cycled the blank reloads through the PS90 action from the magazine by hand 3 times with no failures to feed from the magazine.
I am hopefully optimistic but just have to get some time to head to the range to see if this has cured my problem!
I resized about 50 cases and they measure approximately 0.312” +/-0.0005 in diameter from bottom to top (very straight). I snapped a picture showing the comparison of the original factory die with the modified die – the case wall taper is obvious. I have loaded/unloaded a PS90 mag with 50 of the new resized cases about 5 times and it has worked fine, no hang-up or binding as before. Also, manually cycled the blank reloads through the PS90 action from the magazine by hand 3 times with no failures to feed from the magazine.
I am hopefully optimistic but just have to get some time to head to the range to see if this has cured my problem!
Re: Lacquer coating solution
Starfury exactly what kind of hornady dies are you using my rcbs dies are giving me the exact problem with the rounds slanting back so I am going to get new dies and midway is offering a hornady 2 die full length set on sale for $60 and they call it csnd (custom size new dimension) or something like that and the description they give sounds like a godsend but if these are the ones your using and having problems with I'm not going to buy them but my ps90 is a $1600 paper weight until I can get my ammo to feed properly
Re: Lacquer coating solution
j_parker, That’s the one I have - CSND 2-die set which I sent back in for modification. It is a really nice die setup but the taper drove me crazy! I would recommend you just email/call RCBS and tell them about your issue (send them the link to this discussion) and how it was corrected. I am sure they will polish 3 thousandths or so out of your die to straighten up the case wall. That is what Hornady did for me (no cost) and I also sent along some unsized cases for them to test it on (minimize any back and forth).
Re: Lacquer coating solution
new poster here. I have been trying to figure out how to over come the lacquer problem for sometime now. I have been thinking about stripping the old off and moly coating the cases.. is that a stupid idea??? what would the Cons be other than messy?
Re: Lacquer coating solution
:thumb: You are the the man!!starfury wrote:It has been awhile - but to make a long story short, the Hornady folks had my resizing die for a few months and after a few discussions they ended up polishing the die to remove the taper which provide a diameter of approximately 0.312” from top to bottom.
I re-sized about 50 cases and they measure approximately 0.312” +/-0.0005 in diameter from bottom to top (very straight). I snapped a picture showing the comparison of the original factory die with the modified die – the case wall taper is obvious. I have loaded/unloaded a PS90 mag with 50 of the new re-sized cases about 5 times and it has worked fine, no hang-up or binding as before. Also, manually cycled the blank reloads through the PS90 action from the magazine by hand 3 times with no failures to feed from the magazine.
I am hopefully optimistic but just have to get some time to head to the range to see if this has cured my problem!
I have the exact same problem and thought it was a myriad of other possibilities...yet unlike you, somehow I didn't think of the simplest answer for having the rounds be so loose at the tip that they have almost a quarter inch gap while at the same time overbearingly tight at the case head (while loaded in the mag - most noticeable on the higher capacity mags).
Here is a link to the other thread. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5056
I have the Hornady Custom Size New Dimension dies as well and will be sending them a request for repair.
Do you have a contact that you were working with there (who would now be familiar with this problem)? or did you just send it in and it came back fixed?
Here's what mine look like.
-- Thank you for calling 911 emergency services, please hold --
~~ \|/ ~~
Re: Lacquer coating solution
Look at those leaning cartridges! I sent you the info - they should be able to get you taken care of! I have only had a chance to fire about 150 rds since then but my magazine issue seem to have gone away!
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
Does this mean I can powder my gun with Borax and it will function better and keep the roaches away? :laugh:The August 13th, 2007 issue of Science Daily carried an article that described the amazing lubrication properties of boric acid--the active friction-reducing ingredient in Nano-Oil. Less friction than teflon.... For those of you who know about Nano-Oil, does it "dry"? That is, if coated on a surface, will the liquid carrier evaporate and leave a "dry" film? If so, some Nano-Oil on the 5.7 cases might prove to be a suitable coating for use in the PS90. Hummmm...
Re: Lacquer coating solution
New guy here...but I won't get to 50 posts if I don't post somewhere, so...
I load for pistol. Followed the instruction for hot vibratory cleaning with simple green but found that the lacquer softened and gummed up the sizing die if I didn't let it set for a week after cleaning. Now I just give them 5 minute at room room temp and a day to dry. Not nearly so much damage to the coating.
I use Dillon spray lube and simply leave the lanolin on the cases after sizing. I have 8 loads of 40 gr Nosler over 6.0 gr True Blue on the test batch without any problems. The brass is starting to work harden so I'm thinking they're about done.
Scott
I load for pistol. Followed the instruction for hot vibratory cleaning with simple green but found that the lacquer softened and gummed up the sizing die if I didn't let it set for a week after cleaning. Now I just give them 5 minute at room room temp and a day to dry. Not nearly so much damage to the coating.
I use Dillon spray lube and simply leave the lanolin on the cases after sizing. I have 8 loads of 40 gr Nosler over 6.0 gr True Blue on the test batch without any problems. The brass is starting to work harden so I'm thinking they're about done.
Scott
Re: Lacquer coating solution
I don't load the 5.7 for either of the FN guns but I do have a Savage Model 40 that I rechambered to 5.7 a couple years ago and I've been trying many methods to remove the coating. I just came up with the best and easiest way yet and it removes all of it. I use a Thumblers Model B rotary tumbler (any rotary tumbler will probably work), put a few handfulls of brass (dirty is ok, they still come out shiny) in a Ziploc gallon double seal freezer bag (VERY important to use this exact bag as I own stock in Ziploc!) (just kidding, the bag quality and seal is important because of the lacquer thinner) along with enough lacquer thinner to cover the brass and a little more. Seal the bag leaving lots of air in it so the brass will have tumble room. Put the bag inside the tumbler drum and install the lid. Run this for 1.5 to 2 hrs and dump it into a screen basket so you can shake as much of the LT out as you can and then spread them on a towel to air dry overnight. Works like a champ and the cases look like new. Don't re-use the bags as they weaken and will bust and this is not good as it will leak out of the tumbler drum and create a fire hazard because of the electric motor that is running. I don't have any suggestions for re-coating them as I have no need for that.
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
I know I'm getting in late on this one, but I have a few hundred cases set aside with lacquer damage. I was curious has anybody thought of using something like clear bake on duracoat to restore the lacquer? Just a thought.
Re: Lacquer coating solution
Hi guys,
Another newb here. Just got my FiveseveN pistol and will shoot as soon as my ammo arrives.
I've been handloading for over forty years but have never met up with the challenges presented by this little cartridge.
In regards to the laquer coating issue, I had the same idea as beladran as far as moly coating the brass instead of the laquer. To take it a step further, some folks that were moly-coating their bullets have switched to Hex Boron Nitride coating. Pretty much the same idea but they say it is even slicker.
Just wondering if approaching this from a different angle would produce acceptable results with less hassel
Any thoughts from those more familiar with the cartridge?
Thanks, dirtsmith
Another newb here. Just got my FiveseveN pistol and will shoot as soon as my ammo arrives.
I've been handloading for over forty years but have never met up with the challenges presented by this little cartridge.
In regards to the laquer coating issue, I had the same idea as beladran as far as moly coating the brass instead of the laquer. To take it a step further, some folks that were moly-coating their bullets have switched to Hex Boron Nitride coating. Pretty much the same idea but they say it is even slicker.
Just wondering if approaching this from a different angle would produce acceptable results with less hassel
Any thoughts from those more familiar with the cartridge?
Thanks, dirtsmith
Re: Lacquer coating solution
has any one tried tefflon coating it?
- Rapier1772
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
I would think Teflon would be cost prohibitive. Moly's been tried though.
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
Rapier1772 wrote:I would think Teflon would be cost prohibitive. Moly's been tried though.
For many reasons. the first is you have to roughen up the surface, pre coat the surface and then the teflon. Without that the teflon won't stay on.
Jay Wolf
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
It's been a fairly long time since I have posted and I just want to start by sending my best regards to everyone...
This has most assuredly been covered already, but how important is the factory lacquer coating to the Five-seveN? I am aware of the importance it has regarding the P90...
This has most assuredly been covered already, but how important is the factory lacquer coating to the Five-seveN? I am aware of the importance it has regarding the P90...
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
I say it is others with a hell of a lot less experience with 5.7x28 say it isn't.
So it's up to you to weigh the opinions and come up with your own decisions.
So it's up to you to weigh the opinions and come up with your own decisions.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
I have to agree that it is important, especially with any load above factory pressure... Can you get away with little or no coating on a low pressure plinking round? Sure, with the right powder you may get it to work ok... maybe.Vafrum wrote:This has most assuredly been covered already, but how important is the factory lacquer coating to the Five-seveN? I am aware of the importance it has regarding the P90...
I would be real cautious loading rounds that start to approach MAX load levels with no coating. The load ladder would be much more sporatic, and I would say everything would become a lot less predictable, and the MAX would come suddenly with even higher pressures... And that could result in some type of serious problem.
I have quite a few pieces of brass with worn out/scuffed coating that I plan to strip down again in the future to bare brass and test (I have tried bare brass before in the FsN with very poor results... lots of FTE's) I have loaded a lot of 5.7 and I can tell you that developing loads that start to reach the MAX with bare brass has me more leary than nearly any other variable...
Re: Lacquer coating solution
It just seems that the decapping die strips the lacquer, am I not using enough case lube?
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
More lube and polish the inside of your de-capping die.
Jay Wolf
Pr. Elite Ammunition
Pr. Elite Ammunition
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
A few additional suggestions:Vafrum wrote:It just seems that the decapping die strips the lacquer, am I not using enough case lube?
1) Try Horndady One Shot spray lube - I have had better success with it then any others I have tried to this point...
2a) Double check to make sure that your shellholder is clean and that the round is able to get fully pushed in before re-sizing.
2b) Even if it is clean, make sure the round is always pushed completely into the shellholder. I have noticed that if it isn't, scraping of the coating occurs...
I used to have the problem you described to some extent, but now that I have been following the above steps I only round into that problem a few times per thousand...
Re: Lacquer coating solution
Any tips on polishing the die? Dremel?
Re: Lacquer coating solution
Try my suggestion above first (if you want) and see if it solves your problem (it did for me...)Vafrum wrote:Any tips on polishing the die? Dremel?
Then, if you need to still, you can get cotton polishing heads for the dremel and they also make red polishing compound - you would want to make sure that the polishing head fits nicely into the die (just snug but not too tight..) Most likely it will be too big when you get it, so you can take box cutter or other really sharp knife and shave it down when its spinning (be careful/cautious of course) until it gets to just the right size. Make sure you polish evenly, dont let it sit in one place for too long. I would polish it for about a minute, re-apply the polishing compound and repeat 3-4 times, by then it should be looking really good...
Re: Lacquer coating solution
Pew pew!
Re: Lacquer coating solution
Anyone try a Rustoleum clear enamel? Any other updates?
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
Hello - New here
Found this forum by this thread. Got interested in 5.7X28 in a roundabout fashion. Wanted to build cheap 22lr bullpup - found P90 airsoft conversions - found 5.7X28.
I have read this entire thread and have an idea to make resizing easier and improve case life.
My idea is a flameless neck annealer. The flame test mentioned would indicate that the critical part of the case could be annealed without damaging the coating. This would make resetting the shoulder position easier on both the die and the brass.
After reading this thread I compared some of the once fired brass I obtained with a new Federal AE5728A round - wow!
I will be building one for my own use - am wondering if there would be an interest in this group for more of them.
Wild
Found this forum by this thread. Got interested in 5.7X28 in a roundabout fashion. Wanted to build cheap 22lr bullpup - found P90 airsoft conversions - found 5.7X28.
I have read this entire thread and have an idea to make resizing easier and improve case life.
My idea is a flameless neck annealer. The flame test mentioned would indicate that the critical part of the case could be annealed without damaging the coating. This would make resetting the shoulder position easier on both the die and the brass.
After reading this thread I compared some of the once fired brass I obtained with a new Federal AE5728A round - wow!
I will be building one for my own use - am wondering if there would be an interest in this group for more of them.
Wild
Cartridge Case Coating
Anyone ever figure out how to repair or replace the original coating?
Failing that it would be nice to see a list of things that have been tried even if they failed.
Failing that it would be nice to see a list of things that have been tried even if they failed.
- Rapier1772
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
Merged with relevant thread
Here's a link to other threads dealing with the lacquer coating:
http://www.fivesevenforum.com/search.ph ... mit=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Here's a link to other threads dealing with the lacquer coating:
http://www.fivesevenforum.com/search.ph ... mit=Search" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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- Rapier1772
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Re: Lacquer coating solution
merged
again
If this thread, and those like it, aren't answering your questions, can you please tell us what we're missing?
again
If this thread, and those like it, aren't answering your questions, can you please tell us what we're missing?
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