Storing 5.7 Ammo

[maxx3933]

Hi,
Have alot of factory 5.7 ammo and keep it in my safe in factory boxes. For long term storage
would it be better placed into plastic ammo storage boxes?

[jmz5]

I keep all my ammo in the old metal ammo cans. The ammo cans have gotten really expensive lately, so the next best thing is the plastic ammo boxes.

[maxx3933]

Thanks for the info. Where would you recommend buying plastic storage boxes?

[jmz5]

I usually end up getting them free from cabela's with an ammo purchase.

I would try to source them locally, they would cost more to ship then they are worth.

[jmz5]

Anything air tight and preferably stackable will do.

You don't really need to store ammo in anything as it should last forever just in the factory box on a shelf, but with as expensive as ammo is, I don't take any chances.

[maxx3933]

Thank you so much for all the info!

[sabotteur]

Keep your ammo in in a cool relativly dark place with low humidity and minor temperature fluctuations. Like JM said, if possible put it in an ammo box. I prefer metal for two reasons. One, it has the seal, and two, if there is a fire, and you have the seal in place on your can, the ammo will be contained in the can, so no additional damage will be done to your storage area.

You can also toss in a desicant pack into your cans to help with humidity. All in all, as long as you don't have a lead free primer, your ammo should last a very long time as long as you keep it out of the extreme temperatures and humidity.

[Llagoud]

:thumb:

I used to be able to get those surplus metal cans from Mills Fleet/Farm (Walmart for farmers) for $3-$5 each....then they ran out and said they can't get any more. I needed just a couple more and went to a MilSurp store and they were $15-$20 each!


I went back to Fleet/Farm and they had a new load in but they all have crappy seals or broken handles or bad rust.....

Some fella in St. Cloud found a ton of strays and is selling them by the pallet on CL at about $4 each (must buy pallet load)



Single pieces look to be about $6 now.....you might check CL for a local seller if you're looking for the metal ones, because shipping costs would kill the deal for me.

[jmz5]

The cheapest I have found them local is $7.99, there is no way I am paying that when I used to get them for $2.99.

[Llagoud]

Yup, no way I'm paying 3X what they had been. The two I bought from the MilSurp store were bigguns for my loading press, accessories and manuals.

They should start showing up at garage sales soon......like generators after Y2K :laugh:

[sabotteur]

The military raised the price on them when selling them off at auction....hence the price increase.

Used to be you could get these for about $1.50-$1.75 each when you bought them by the truckload...

Now they run about $6-$7 a piece at auction.

Still not bad when you consider that we pay almost $20 for a new M12A can, which is your standard .50 cal can.

The PA120 cans that high velocity 40mm grenades come in cost us $63.24 each.

[maxx3933]

Thanks everyone! I'll look into ammo cans.

[gunfrog]

Consider using a heating element for your safe. There are several made just for this purpose at reasonable price. It keeps it dry inside as a previous poster mentioned low, no humidity is good for ammo. Good for your guns, good for your ammo. r gunfrog

[ddouglas]

Going back to jmz5's response to the original question: My wife has one of those vacuum-bag storage machines. You put (whatever) in a special bag, stick the open end of the bag into the machine whereupon it draws a hard vacuum on the bag and then heat-seals the bag. Things put in there and then into the freezer last a long time without spoiling or otherwise going bad. I'm wondering how that vacuum storage method might work for ammo storage. One of the smallish bags can probably hold 100-200 rounds of 5.7x28. Might be good for long-term storage... Anyone tried this?

[jmz5]

It works good, if you are planning for long storage, like twenty years or more, then vaccuum sealing might be cost effective, I would toss a desiccant in there for good measure. I rotate all my ammo so I am always shooting the oldest stuff so for me the metal containers are best.

It works, but it's way, way overkill.

[NLVMike]

I have ss192 stored that I bought as far back as 2004. I don't shoot it for a couple of reasons. The biggest is that you all have me paranoid about how long the LF primers will last in my ss195. I bought cases of that stuff in 2006-2007. I have been shooting through it with no failures so far, but I don't know how long it will last. So far, in hot dry Las Vegas, I have had no problems. So I keep the ss192 in storage and in my personal defense mags because the primers should last a lot longer. (right?). Also, I don't like to waste it at the range, as my own unscientific testing shows it is a LOT more powerful than the ss195, and it goes without saying that it is much better than the anemic ss197.

[fatherfoof]

Common sense is the approach. Drinking coffee at the local reloading store I've laughed at angry guys scolding the owner that their reloads don't work after only one summer in the garage in Houston. Duh? I still play with 357s I loaded in 1984 and they all work. No bags, cans, etc. Today's components have minimal denegration if your house has AC and the bench and everything is out of the sunlight. I'd even say the cautions re the lead five yr rule on the 5.7s could be streched unless it's in your holster going back and forth in and out of doors. Actually, in rereading your post, you're in a unique situation. I've never been to Vegas, but I understand it is extremely dry and hot. For what it's worth, double base powders require an emulsification which could possible be broken down. Any of you guys back from the sandbox see any DOD epistles on this?

[tombirdman]

.

I have about 1,000 rounds of SS195. Older, in the white box.

After reading several posts about this ammunitions LF primers, I called Robert Ailes at FN an d put the question to him about their LF primers. He admited that some LF primers wont last but that the FN SS195 primers will and that they have no record of a failure with it.

Bob has done alot for me and he knows his stuff.
I am inclined to believe what he says.
He would know.

Now I am ready to hear all you rag-on about how this isn't so.

.

[f3rr37]

.

I have about 1,000 rounds of SS195. Older, in the white box.

After reading several posts about this ammunitions LF primers, I called Robert Ailes at FN an d put the question to him about their LF primers. He admited that some LF primers wont last but that the FN SS195 primers will and that they have no record of a failure with it.

Bob has done alot for me and he knows his stuff.
I am inclined to believe what he says.
He would know.

Now I am ready to hear all you rag-on about how this isn't so.

.

SS195 is lead-free, hence the full name SS195LF.

[sabotteur]

.

I have about 1,000 rounds of SS195. Older, in the white box.

After reading several posts about this ammunitions LF primers, I called Robert Ailes at FN an d put the question to him about their LF primers. He admited that some LF primers wont last but that the FN SS195 primers will and that they have no record of a failure with it.

Bob has done alot for me and he knows his stuff.
I am inclined to believe what he says.
He would know.

Now I am ready to hear all you rag-on about how this isn't so.

.

I wouldn't say we are going to rag on you, just try to provide you the facts and let you draw your own conclusions.

Let's the take the federal 215 primer. This primer is used in all our current .50 cal ammo, most of our 7.62 ammo, along with most of our 40mm grenades and by most people who reload rifle cartridges. The primary components are Lead styphnate, lead oxide, calcium silicide, barium nitrate, antimony sulphide, and tetracene. There are also small amounts of nytrocellulose and nitroglycerine, but the amounts are really insignificant. When fired, the heavy metals, primarily the lead, are released into the air and can be breathed in by the user, or lay as residue on the shooters hands and face and are later ingested.

To replace the lead, you have to remove the lead styphanate and lead oxide. These are usually replaced with things such as iodine pentoxide and a mixture of aluminum and magnesium, or some alloy of the two. The aluminum is suseptiable to moisture and oxidation and the iodine pentoxide can turn into iodic acid, both of which degrade performance.

Over time, the moisture, mainly via humidity will creep in and begin to degrade the compositions of the energetic components, and hence we see the limited shelf life associated with lead free primers.

There are a few patents out there, and the military is funding allot of research into them, that create lead free primers that don't suffer this effect. The problem to date is that in order to achieve the necessary results, the energetic components tend to be more volatile than our standard lead based primers and thus don't meet our safety requirements or they do not create enough of a detonation pressure wave to properly ignite the secondary explosive, or propellant.

For now, most of the lead free primers found in commercial ammunition will continue to suffer degraded performance over time. Storage will definitely play a role in this, and proper storage can extend the shelf life, but you are fighting a long term losing battle.

[tombirdman]

.

I have about 1,000 rounds of SS195. Older, in the white box.

After reading several posts about this ammunitions LF primers, I called Robert Ailes at FN an d put the question to him about their LF primers. He admited that some LF primers wont last but that the FN SS195 primers will and that they have no record of a failure with it.

Bob has done alot for me and he knows his stuff.
I am inclined to believe what he says.
He would know.

Now I am ready to hear all you rag-on about how this isn't so.

.

I wouldn't say we are going to rag on you, just try to provide you the facts and let you draw your own conclusions.

Let's the take the federal 215 primer. This primer is used in all our current .50 cal ammo, most of our 7.62 ammo, along with most of our 40mm grenades and by most people who reload rifle cartridges. The primary components are Lead styphnate, lead oxide, calcium silicide, barium nitrate, antimony sulphide, and tetracene. There are also small amounts of nytrocellulose and nitroglycerine, but the amounts are really insignificant. When fired, the heavy metals, primarily the lead, are released into the air and can be breathed in by the user, or lay as residue on the shooters hands and face and are later ingested.

To replace the lead, you have to remove the lead styphanate and lead oxide. These are usually replaced with things such as iodine pentoxide and a mixture of aluminum and magnesium, or some alloy of the two. The aluminum is suseptiable to moisture and oxidation and the iodine pentoxide can turn into iodic acid, both of which degrade performance.

Over time, the moisture, mainly via humidity will creep in and begin to degrade the compositions of the energetic components, and hence we see the limited shelf life associated with lead free primers.

There are a few patents out there, and the military is funding allot of research into them, that create lead free primers that don't suffer this effect. The problem to date is that in order to achieve the necessary results, the energetic components tend to be more volatile than our standard lead based primers and thus don't meet our safety requirements or they do not create enough of a detonation pressure wave to properly ignite the secondary explosive, or propellant.

For now, most of the lead free primers found in commercial ammunition will continue to suffer degraded performance over time. Storage will definitely play a role in this, and proper storage can extend the shelf life, but you are fighting a long term losing battle.

.




Very good explanation !!!

Thank You,

Tom


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