Tornado Technologies - barrel threading

Post by **Rapier1772** » 17 Jul 2010, 06:49

http://www.tornado-technologies.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They said about a week turn around, was more like 2 weeks. Still beats the Jarvis wait time

It is supposed to come with a thread protector but they are out of them right now, its on back order. The threads are 10mmx1, anything larger & you wont be able to field strip your gun.
It did not screw up my Accurizing from EA, just made it a little dirty - couple of dry patches took care of that.
From what I can tell, the job looks to be done well.
I have more pics/larger pics if you want but this should suffice.

Post by **Grantness** » 17 Jul 2010, 08:01

Aww man, that is so cool! Any chance you could get some chorno data w/ a known velocity round/load?

Post by **Rapier1772** » 17 Jul 2010, 08:54

Grantness wrote:Aww man, that is so cool! Any chance you could get some chorno data w/ a known velocity round/load?

I don't have a chrono (yet) but I have nothing to compare it to, factory rounds aren't reliable enough right? What I would like to do is get together someone with a FsN & see if there is a difference. The only other thing I can think of would be for someone to send me cartridges a known load

Other options?

Post by **Grantness** » 17 Jul 2010, 22:09

Well, if you shoot a large enough sample size of SS197, or whatever factory round you select (EA would obviously be best)...excluding significant outliers...we would get a fairly accurate comparison. All you're looking for is the difference between your threaded barrel and a regular barrel using the same ammo. I'd say a sample size of at least 7-10 would suffice.

A decent chrono goes for at least $100, but its a good investment regardless of whether you reload or not. Its important to know how consistent your ammo is. Its also nice to know the actual velocity off a particular round out of YOUR gun versus what it says on the box.

...I guess you'd still need a regular barrel, or at least someone you know who has one.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 25 Jul 2010, 11:59

Did some chrono testing with the new thread extension but the guy with the standard bbl on his FsN had to cancel so no velocity comparison this time. Don't like it? Buy me another FsN & I will redo the test

15 rounds each, 70 degrees. It was my first time using a chrono & I didn't shoot it :thumb:

S4 (Lot 57-S4JW11222009): Avg 2476 Hi 2528 Low 2439
IlluminaTOR (Lot 57-IllJW10172009): Avg 1635 Hi 1815 Low 1580
FNH 197 (Lots of numbers on sticker): Avg 1848 Hi 1971 Low 1743

Post by **blueorison** » 25 Jul 2010, 12:49

Dang, that's a 70-100 fps increase on the barrel.

SICK.

How much for the welding job?

Post by **Rapier1772** » 25 Jul 2010, 12:59

blueorison wrote:How much for the welding job?

Welding job was $175 + shipping.

I used a Chrony F-1. I don't know if the 70-100fps is for real or just a difference in meters

Oh and the chrono was about 5-6ft from muzzle

Post by **blueorison** » 25 Jul 2010, 13:45

Rapier1772 wrote:
blueorison wrote:How much for the welding job?
Welding job was $175 + shipping.

I used a Chrony F-1. I don't know if the 70-100fps is for real or just a difference in meters Oh and the chrono was about 5-6ft from muzzle

HEY MANG WTH

You didn't tell us it was meters per second.

What happened to always including units with every numerical value :furious:

Post by **Grantness** » 25 Jul 2010, 14:33

Definately seems like some significant improvement w/ the SS197. If accuracy is not affected, it looks well worth the $$

Post by **Rapier1772** » 25 Jul 2010, 14:43

blueorison wrote:
Rapier1772 wrote:
blueorison wrote:How much for the welding job?
Welding job was $175 + shipping.

I used a Chrony F-1. I don't know if the 70-100fps is for real or just a difference in meters Oh and the chrono was about 5-6ft from muzzle
HEY MANG WTH
You didn't tell us it was meters per second.
What happened to always including units with every numerical value :furious:

Meter as in gauge - a device used to measure something. Speedometer, sphygmomanometer, chronometer, pedometer... see a pattern?
All measurements were in feet per second or fps. That is factory set & can't be changed on the F-1.

Post by **blueorison** » 25 Jul 2010, 14:56

I thought that's what you mean Rapier :p

What kind of paperwork did you need for Tornado Tech's weld job?

$200 might be pushing it just for a 100 fps increase if you don't wish for a suppressor, IMHO.

But since you're getting it for a suppressor, all the merrier!!!

Post by **Grantness** » 25 Jul 2010, 15:13

For ~$200 you get to upgrade all future ammunition you run through your gun. Sounds like a good deal to me. Not to mention that you can throw on a suppressor (lol, almost forgot about that) w/o screwing up your cases like the other threaded barrel on the market.

The one thing I wonder about is whether the added barrel length could somehow throw off the timing of the burn and cause malfunctions with any already fine-tuned maxed-out loads.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 25 Jul 2010, 15:30

blueorison wrote:I thought that's what you mean Rapier :p

Never know with you Asians, they still use the metric system over there :p Couple that with being Texan & it is anybody's guess... :p

blueorison wrote:What kind of paperwork did you need for Tornado Tech's weld job?
$200 might be pushing it just for a 100 fps increase if you don't wish for a suppressor, IMHO.
But since you're getting it for a suppressor, all the merrier!!!

I would not recommend this for a velocity increase at this time. The numbers I stated were not compared to another FsN using a regular bbl. So there is no way to really know if it was just the way the METER read :p or if it had any effect on speed. I need to run a test with a unaltered FsN (or someone else can).
Just send them the barrel assembly (with spring on it), a completed order form from their site & a check for the service + shipping (contact them for amount). As I was told, since you are not making the weapon into any kind of SBR, SBS, AOW or whatever - you do not need any BATFE forms. Tornado did not ask for any paperwork.

Post by **blueorison** » 25 Jul 2010, 17:48

Sweet. Ok FINE. Awaiting the readings from the stock bbl. Rapier

Post by **Rapier1772** » 20 Aug 2010, 14:19

I just got my thread adapter FINALLY. But since I still haven't gotten any word on my BATFE form, I still can't play quietly :wall:

As for the adapter, it's black & fits snugly on the extension's threads. No idea how they fit in the suppressor yet

Is that BATFE check up number (304-616-4500) still good?

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 21 Aug 2010, 09:58

Rapier1772 wrote:I don't have a chrono (yet) but I have nothing to compare it to, factory rounds aren't reliable enough right? What I would like to do is get together someone with a FsN & see if there is a difference.

Well, I have a chrono and a standard FsN, but... I live all the way over in Chubbuck. I'm not sure if we could get together :laugh:

Mike

Post by **Rapier1772** » 21 Aug 2010, 16:20

Vortec MAX wrote:
Rapier1772 wrote:I don't have a chrono (yet) but I have nothing to compare it to, factory rounds aren't reliable enough right? What I would like to do is get together someone with a FsN & see if there is a difference.
Well, I have a chrono and a standard FsN, but... I live all the way over in Chubbuck. I'm not sure if we could get together :laugh:
Mike

You haven't been keeping up on current Rapier events :laugh: Kidding - I did buy a chrono and more importantly I moved to Pocatello the first of Aug. Seeing as how our towns are neighbors, I think we can arrange something :laugh: PM inbound

Post by **Rapier1772** » 22 Aug 2010, 13:05

Thanks to Mike (Vortec Max), we now have velocity data of the standard barrel vs threaded extension. Short version - Yes, there is a velocity difference. Apparently blue was right earlier, there is about a 70-100 fps increase. There is no rifling in the extension piece but apparently the tolerances are still close enough to effect speed.
Both EA Accurized FsN USGs. Temp ~70F. Chrono 6ft from muzzle. 10 shots each. All measurements are in feet per second (fps)
1st column is Standard (S), 2nd & 3rd rows are Threaded (T)
SS197SR Lot #0220769049
S--------------T---------------T
1751----------1805-----------1765
1728----------1778-----------1795
1693----------1776-----------1818
1694----------1777-----------1780
1700----------1790-----------1798
1709----------1771-----------1795
1720----------1808-----------1823
1727----------1815-----------1805
1728----------1781-----------1816
1708----------1794-----------1783
Avg 1715-----Avg 1789-----Avg 1798
Overall average for 20 shots from threaded barrel = 1794

S4 UltraRaptor Lot #57-S4JW11222009
S--------------T
2356----------2505
2367----------2434
2348----------2448
2329----------2452
2359----------2460
2322----------2467
2380----------2508
2378----------2491
2387----------2420
2345----------2410
Avg 2357-----Avg 2459

While there was a change in the point of impact with the different ammo, Mike's grouping was similar with both guns. My grouping sucks at that range anyway :wall:

Thank you again Vortec Max! :patriot: (Oh by the way, he still has the barcode sticker on his FsN :laugh: )

Post by **panzermk2** » 22 Aug 2010, 13:20

How far away was the chronograph?

Post by **Rapier1772** » 22 Aug 2010, 13:28

Wow, you really are old now aren't you? Or did you just forget your bi-focals? :p
I should shut up - he's heavily armed & a much better shot :laugh:

Chrono was 6ft from muzzle

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 22 Aug 2010, 14:30

Rapier1772 wrote:While there was a change in the point of impact with the different ammo, Mike's grouping was similar with both guns.

The group from my FiveseveN at 25 yards was virtually identical to the group I shot with Rapier1772's Fiveseven at the same distance. I would conclude that the barrel threading in no way affected accuracy, but did obviously increase muzzle velocity.

Rapier1772 wrote:Thank you again Vortex Max! :patriot: (Oh by the way, he still has the barcode sticker on his FsN :laugh: )

You must be getting me back for misspelling your name earlier. Not only did you misspell Vortec, but you outed me in front of everyone.

:lmao:

Mike

Post by **panzermk2** » 22 Aug 2010, 14:43

Rapier1772 wrote:Wow, you really are old now aren't you? Or did you just forget your bi-focals? :p
I should shut up - he's heavily armed & a much better shot :laugh:

Chrono was 6ft from muzzle

How did you avoid muzzle blast jacking up the chronoy?

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 22 Aug 2010, 14:51

panzermk2 wrote:How did you avoid muzzle blast jacking up the chronoy?

That might explain why we had "ERROR" come up a few times during testing. We had to shoot a few extra rounds to get "good" readings.

I usually don't have a problem at 6 ft with a pistol, but the FiveseveN has a pretty good muzzle blast.

Mike

Post by **Rapier1772** » 22 Aug 2010, 15:12

Vortec MAX wrote:You must be getting me back for misspelling your name earlier. Not only did you misspell Vortec, but you outed me in front of everyone. :lmao:
Mike

Uh, yeah - that's what I was doing... sure :facepalm:
If you hadn't quoted that other part, they'd have probably skipped over it & you'd have been in the clear :laugh:

panzermk2 wrote:How did you avoid muzzle blast jacking up the chronoy?

Vortec Max has one of those super-whamadine chronograph things that is impervious to such things

:laugh:

6ft was Vortec's idea - it was his chrony, figured he knew best. I did slide back about a foot when we got a couple of errors in a row but for the most part it was 6ft

Post by **blueorison** » 24 Aug 2010, 12:04

See, I'm always right.

Just kidding. Glad you're getting the fps increase.

Thanks for the data guys. I guess Vortec's sticker must've expired... seeing that it didn't ALSO give him a 100 fps increase

Madhouse · Post by **Madhouse** » 25 Aug 2010, 17:41

Rapier1772 wrote:I just got my thread adapter FINALLY. But since I still haven't gotten any word on my BATFE form, I still can't play quietly :wall:

As for the adapter, it's black & fits snugly on the extension's threads. No idea how they fit in the suppressor yet

Is that BATFE check up number (304-616-4500) still good?

You're gonna love it when you finally can! I didn't notice in the thread, which suppressor are you getting?

Post by **Rapier1772** » 25 Aug 2010, 18:49

Madhouse wrote:You're gonna love it when you finally can! I didn't notice in the thread, which suppressor are you getting?

Gemtech SFN-57

Post by **Rapier1772** » 04 Apr 2011, 11:48

I thought they had forgotten about me - I had basically written it off as such.

My thread protector has finally arrived! And yes, it does fit in the MTAC holster with no modification.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 14 Aug 2011, 20:43

Its is also from Tornado Tech. I ordered it the same time as the threaded barrel. It came about a month later but since I was still waiting on my paperwork, it didn't really matter. But the thread protector took forever to arrive.

Valorius · Post by **Valorius** » 15 Apr 2012, 20:06

Rapier1772 wrote:Thanks to Mike (Vortec Max), we now have velocity data of the standard barrel vs threaded extension. Short version - Yes, there is a velocity difference. Apparently blue was right earlier, there is about a 70-100 fps increase. There is no rifling in the extension piece but apparently the tolerances are still close enough to effect speed.
Both EA Accurized FsN USGs. Temp ~70F. Chrono 6ft from muzzle. 10 shots each. All measurements are in feet per second (fps)
1st column is Standard (S), 2nd & 3rd rows are Threaded (T)
SS197SR Lot #0220769049
S--------------T---------------T
1751----------1805-----------1765
1728----------1778-----------1795
1693----------1776-----------1818
1694----------1777-----------1780
1700----------1790-----------1798
1709----------1771-----------1795
1720----------1808-----------1823
1727----------1815-----------1805
1728----------1781-----------1816
1708----------1794-----------1783
Avg 1715-----Avg 1789-----Avg 1798
Overall average for 20 shots from threaded barrel = 1794

S4 UltraRaptor Lot #57-S4JW11222009
S--------------T
2356----------2505
2367----------2434
2348----------2448
2329----------2452
2359----------2460
2322----------2467
2380----------2508
2378----------2491
2387----------2420
2345----------2410
Avg 2357-----Avg 2459

How much velocity should one expect with S4M moly coated, as opposed to regular S4, in a threaded barrel?

Also, it might be good to have the following question answered here...has anyone chrono'd a threaded un-suppressed FsN side by side with a suppressed threaded FsN?

It would be interesting to see if the suppressor further boosts the performance gain of the threaded barrel. That alone would be enough of a reason to get a suppressor for me, with the noise reduction just being a wonderful bonus. I'd love to get S4M up to it's actual advertised velocity of 2600fps/400fpe from an FsN.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 15 Apr 2012, 20:23

Valorius wrote:How much velocity should one expect with S4M moly coated, as opposed to regular S4, in a threaded barrel?

Do you know the difference between the two in a standard barrel? They are both still traveling the same distance through the barrel & a 1/2" freebore won't cause much of a velocity change. I would guess any differences in velocity between the two in a standard barrel would carry over to the threaded velocities. Both would end up boosted the same amount, give or take maybe 10fps. Even then, that difference could be written off as powder charge or meter error - unless you have a lot of test rounds from different lot #s.

Valorius wrote:It would be interesting to see if the suppressor further boosts the performance gain of the threaded barrel. That alone would be enough of a reason to get a suppressor for me, with the noise reduction just being a wonderful bonus. I'd love to get S4M up to it's actual advertised velocity of 2600fps/400fpe from an FsN.

I am not buying any S4M to do that test but if you want to send me some ammo, then I will do it :laugh:

But if you are looking for any little boost, have you upgraded your recoil spring? I did notice a slight increase of ~10fps on average. I've fired & recorded info on enough rounds w/factory spring & with EA's 20lb spring that I am satisfied with calling it a result.

Valorius · Post by **Valorius** » 16 Apr 2012, 04:51

If you could get S4M without buying 500rds of it, i'd happily send you some, but sadly, Elite doesn't seem to be making the best overall load yet devised for the 5.7x28mm for small purchases any more, instead focusing on their T6, which although neat, is IMO too expensive and which also lacks the jacket fragmentation effect of S4M.

If T6 reliably fragmented at it's weak spots i'd like it a whole lot more, but it doesn't seem to do that.

I have the standard recoil spring in my FsN. 10 fps is not enough for most people to worry about. Demonstrable gains of 70-100 fps such as what the barrel threading offers are something else entirely. Then again, why not? I just had my gun at elite, and forgot all about getting a stronger recoil spring put in. Dagnabit. Oh well. Maybe i'll order one.

Has anyone ever come remotely close to the advertised 2600fps velocity of Elite S4 or S4M from an FsN? Even with the threaded barrel the actual velocity seems to be a full 150fps short. Meaning over 200fps short without it.

Not that 2400fps or thereabouts is bad, but if a product says 2600, it should be able to do that when chrono'd at least -some- times.

fd57 · Post by **fd57** » 16 Apr 2012, 05:30

Mother Nature may be the reason why someone is recording 2400 versus the 2600. Humidity, pressure, temperature, and wind may all affect the measured result. If those variables and the munitions side of the equation produced 2600 that day or those days, and someone else tests with one or more of those variables different, the expected outcome may also be different.

justa22 · Post by **justa22** » 16 Apr 2012, 06:10

Do they actually weld the extension on, or do they thread the orginal barrel, then screw on the added length extension,does not look like it is welded from the photos. thanks

Post by **panzermk2** » 16 Apr 2012, 13:22

Valorius wrote:If you could get S4M without buying 500rds of it, i'd happily send you some, but sadly, Elite doesn't seem to be making the best overall load yet devised for the 5.7x28mm for small purchases any more, instead focusing on their T6, which although neat, is IMO too expensive and which also lacks the jacket fragmentation effect of S4M.

If T6 reliably fragmented at it's weak spots i'd like it a whole lot more, but it doesn't seem to do that.

Sorry your wrong it does and all my years of testing verify this. The T6 out performs the S4M in every category except price.

There are plenty of times the S4Ms has jacket has not fragmented. I have the bullets to prove it.

This is only a small sample of the hundreds of recovered bullets I have and keep from testing. As you can clearly see the jacket does not always fragment. In FACT only about 15% of the time does it. Normally it bends over and molds round the core causing the bullet to keyhole. The T6 will do this too. If it does not break up the bullet bends. When there is no bullet break up the wound channel between the two cannot be distinguished. The T6 how ever does penetrate barriers better and go one to do more damage then the S4M.

The T6 is better then the S4M this is a fact.

Ubetit · Post by **Ubetit** » 16 Apr 2012, 13:37

justa22 wrote:Do they actually weld the extension on, or do they thread the orginal barrel, then screw on the added length extension,does not look like it is welded from the photos. thanks

They thread the original barrel and screw on the extension. ADCO does it the same way. I think most threaded barrels are threaded on extensions unlesss you start with a longer barrel. http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-t ... d-p30.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

justa22 · Post by **justa22** » 16 Apr 2012, 13:43

How about different length extensions for volicity needs, maybe a two inch and a four inch that we could screw on to our threaded barrel.

Post by **panzermk2** » 16 Apr 2012, 13:53

justa22 wrote:How about different length extensions for volicity needs, maybe a two inch and a four inch that we could screw on to our threaded barrel.

Because unless it's rifled also the majority of gasses blow buy the bullet. Getting a rifled extension to line up with rifling already present would be very tricky, time consuming hence expensive.

Since EFK and EA's test barrels are completely rifled you would gain the most fps and accuracy with them.

blacklabelop · Post by **blacklabelop** » 03 Jul 2012, 00:21

Love me some Tornado Tech..

And they are turning these barrels around pretty quick !

Post by **Rapier1772** » 03 Jul 2012, 12:46

Which suppressor is that? Maybe you could provide your input in our suppressor scoring thread once you've tested it?
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8215" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

blacklabelop · Post by **blacklabelop** » 03 Jul 2012, 14:05

I have 3 cans that are five-seven rated

the one mounted is a degroat nano http://www.armamentsales.com/suppressors.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I also have a SS mite that is 5.7 rated..and a degroat mk99 mod 0, I like the nano because if is super short, wiped and light.

I will post up some videos as soon as I get my hands on some more ammo :cya:

Civil · Post by **Civil** » 15 Sep 2012, 10:24

+1 for TT.......the do good work

Burt Gummer · Post by **Burt Gummer** » 17 Oct 2012, 00:02

I had Tornado do my 5.7 pistol barrel and soon I will have my form 1 back to SBR my PS90.

I'd like to have my PS90 threaded to use a Sparrow (not great for 5.7 sound suppression apparently) and then be able to use a Mystic and and put a 51t flash suppressor on it for an M4-2000. If the last two are an either-or proposition I'd probably just stick with the M4-2000.

I like Tornado Tech, I just wish they had a drive thru

Vortec MAX · Post by **Vortec MAX** » 26 Oct 2012, 12:37

This might be a silly question, but has anyone tried threading a barrel for their FiveseveN in 1/2 x 28 threads instead of M10 x 1 mm threads and using a suppressor designed for a .22 WMR?

It seems to me that if I could use a .22 WMR can, or the Gemtech can for AR57 uppers, that I would be able to also use the can for any rimfire .22s I might have.

Anyone done this?

Here is the link to the Gemtech can I am talking about:

http://www.gem-tech.com/store/pc/SAR57-4p49.htm

Mike

Post by **Rapier1772** » 26 Oct 2012, 13:13

The barrel on a FsN has an OD of ~.4", so 1/2x28 would make for a sloppy fit. If you built up your barrel (ie similar tornado tech extension) to the right size, could you field strip your gun?

Post by **Esteves** » 26 Oct 2012, 14:01

Rapier1772 wrote:If you built up your barrel (ie similar tornado tech extension) to the right size, could you field strip your gun?

If right size = 1/2" OD, then no.

Most of the multi-caliber suppressors that can function with the FsN use a 10x1M to 1/2"x28 adapter to attach to the pistol.
The adapters don't cost all that much, and are available from several sources.

Beware! 5.7x28 from a pistol will have is a LOT higher pressure than .22WMR from a rifle. If your .22WMR can isn't rated for 5.7x28 then all sorts of bad things could happen.

nbkisjh · Post by **nbkisjh** » 19 Mar 2014, 14:00

To Whom it may concern Tornado Technologies has factory Five-seveN threaded barrels available obviously limited quantity the price I'm not sure on. I was asked not to divulge that information, and as a professional curtesy to Goldie I will not do so. This is not a spam message just an FYI.

The trigger pull on the MKII is much better in comparison to the USG. btw. Though the older models are harder to come by in owning both FNH just keeps out doing themselves.

Post by **Rapier1772** » 26 Mar 2014, 10:37

So to clear things up a bit, I called Tornado Tech and got some information about nbkisjh's post.
Tornado Tech (TT) is going to be getting in some factory FNH barrels for the FsN which TT will then do their thing & put threads on the end of them.
TT isn't going to get many barrels in this time and there is currently no indication that TT will get any more later. The barrels are expected to be in within 2 weeks.

Goldie didn't ask me to keep the price on the DL but she also wasn't sure what the actual cost will be. She guessed it would be around $385.

Sorry I doubted you nbkisjh.

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