NFA Wait Times

Forum for discussing NFA firearms and accessories such as suppressors, SBR and full-auto goodies.
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Rapier1772
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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by Rapier1772 » 27 Jun 2012, 06:52

57js wrote:Not from Texas, but make sure you read through the trust if you get one off the internet or from a dealer. Most of them have been taken straight off Quicken which is good for 90% of the basic trusts, but firearms trusts are a little different because you there are things that can disqualify someone from being a trustee that you need to put into the trust. What happens if one of your trustees get convicted of a felony or domestic violence? That person can't possess a firearm now so your trust needs to deal with it in all the proper legal terms. There are some other issues that the Quicken trusts have as well so I would recommend a lawyer who has done this before. I am not just saying this as an attorney who does write them up, but as someone who wants you to make sure the trust is written properly because if it isn't you are facing a) 10 years/$250k fine, b) ATF requiring immediate removal of NFA firearms if they approve tax stamp and then decide trust isn't valid on a subsequent form you send them, and c) ATF requiring you to get a proper trust set up if trust isn't proper the first time. I haven't heard of a) happening because of a bad trust, but don't take the chance. B and C have happened in some cases. ATF tells person on a subsequent application that trust is invalid so that all previously approved NFA with that trust are now canceled so items have to be taken from their possession until another trust is created, and ATF issues a tax stamp for that. That means another $5 or $200 fee plus a six month wait.

Don't risk it.

Trusts take a short time to set up, and then usually only need updates when you add/remove a trustee with amendments which you can often do yourself.
Thanks for the warning about the computer generated trusts. I knew there was a problem but couldn't think of the best way to word it. :laugh: I just wish they weren't so smeggin' expensive (lawyers wanted $400).
Contrary to popular belief, you CAN fix stupid - it's just illegal.
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57js
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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by 57js » 27 Jun 2012, 16:31

Rapier1772 wrote:
57js wrote:Not from Texas, but make sure you read through the trust if you get one off the internet or from a dealer. Most of them have been taken straight off Quicken which is good for 90% of the basic trusts, but firearms trusts are a little different because you there are things that can disqualify someone from being a trustee that you need to put into the trust. What happens if one of your trustees get convicted of a felony or domestic violence? That person can't possess a firearm now so your trust needs to deal with it in all the proper legal terms. There are some other issues that the Quicken trusts have as well so I would recommend a lawyer who has done this before. I am not just saying this as an attorney who does write them up, but as someone who wants you to make sure the trust is written properly because if it isn't you are facing a) 10 years/$250k fine, b) ATF requiring immediate removal of NFA firearms if they approve tax stamp and then decide trust isn't valid on a subsequent form you send them, and c) ATF requiring you to get a proper trust set up if trust isn't proper the first time. I haven't heard of a) happening because of a bad trust, but don't take the chance. B and C have happened in some cases. ATF tells person on a subsequent application that trust is invalid so that all previously approved NFA with that trust are now canceled so items have to be taken from their possession until another trust is created, and ATF issues a tax stamp for that. That means another $5 or $200 fee plus a six month wait.

Don't risk it.

Trusts take a short time to set up, and then usually only need updates when you add/remove a trustee with amendments which you can often do yourself.
Thanks for the warning about the computer generated trusts. I knew there was a problem but couldn't think of the best way to word it. :laugh: I just wish they weren't so smeggin' expensive (lawyers wanted $400).
There are so few attorneys who do NFA trusts that we can charge a bit more. I know of only two or three attorneys in the Las Vegas area that does NFA trusts, and most start at $200. The more complicated it is, the higher the price. There are a fair amount of attorneys who can write up a good trust. It is the NFA part that will cause problems since there aren't many attorneys who deal with NFA as well as the other subsequent laws.

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by Rapier1772 » 27 Jun 2012, 17:48

I know there few who understand NFA trusts - I called around :laugh: Even in Idaho, most didn't feel comfortable enough with the laws to go through with it - of course, that was Boise area... :ponder: Damn hippies :p
& I am not dissing on lawyers for charging so much. If the skills are in demand, people (or lawyers) can charge what they want. (ok, maybe I am picking on lawyers a little) :p

I just couldn't afford an extra $400 on top of what I was already paying for the tax stamp, suppressor, and threaded extension (~$1k total). The only other thing I would need a trust for is my PS90 once I can afford the SBR.

Plus, I don't have wife/kids & I don't trust anyone else with my guns so I can't really see the point of getting one. :laugh:
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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by jgreenberg01 » 28 Jun 2012, 04:19

Domestic situation aside, there's one more good reason for an NFA Trust... you only have to do it one time for all of your NFA items. That means no waiting, ever, for CLEO sign-off or FBI fingerprint checks to be performed.

And if you do ever have a brain-fart and enter into holy matrimony and even (gasp) have rugrats... you're set. Just add them as Trustees, again no CLEO sign-off and no FBI fingerprint cards.

Not to pile on lawyers but, what do you call 6 lawyers buried up to their necks in sand?





















A severe shortage of sand.
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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by Crawfish80 » 29 Jun 2012, 03:47

Thank you all for the information.

Yes I went in and spoke with a Class III dealer by my house yesterday. Turns out that the owner of the shop just happens to be a lawyer, he originally opened up the shop and become a class III dealer to support his passion for weapons, he told me that the nice perk was when the shop actually started making money a couple years back. In any case HE sets up all the paperwork specifically for the NFA trust. I personally will not be adding any other people on it right now. The large reason to get it is that I live in Houston, so getting the CLOE to sign off on NFA weapons is not that easy.

Thanks for the post, always good to hear others opinions on subjects.

Now any one know of some one selling a PS90? SBR? Can?

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by Vortec MAX » 09 Jul 2012, 07:54

I paid up front for a .308 can in late January or early February. It has still not been transferred to the dealer. I suspect that the current administration is doing what they can to make the agency "drag their feet" on these approvals. The local dealer said that once he gets the can, it will be another 6 months or so before he can transfer it to me. That is ridiculous.

We should sue the government to make them do their job. So should Arizona.

I am very interested in this trust idea. I need to research it some more.

Mike

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by RM9792 » 14 Jul 2012, 18:42

It took almost 7 months to get my latest Suppressor form back. Turned in Nov 29, 2011 and got back around first of June.

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by rfd298 » 05 Aug 2012, 06:24

I put in for four stamps this year, two form 1's (sbr) and two form 4's (suppressors). I have received 2 back so far. They are running almost 6 months to the day of cashing the check.

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Vortec MAX
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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by Vortec MAX » 15 Aug 2012, 07:29

Dealer has my can. Put my check in the mail yesterday. Let's see how long it takes.

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by toyslr » 15 Aug 2012, 07:59

Currently 6-9 months

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by ddouglas » 15 Aug 2012, 08:28

The August 2012 issue of Shooting Industry, a monthly trade magazine, had a letter to the editor suggesting that Shooting Industry pay more attention to the "growing interest" in silencers. The Editor responded that it was a good idea and promised they would do so. The Editor also referred the readers to a new website dedicated to the silencer, http://americansilencerassociation.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I had a look at the site; since it's brand new, there's not a lot on it right now, but you fellas' might want to bookmark the site to see how it evolves.

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by Rapier1772 » 15 Aug 2012, 09:11

Mike, you go through Sam or do you have another one?
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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by Vortec MAX » 17 Aug 2012, 09:57

Rapier1772 wrote:Mike, you go through Sam or do you have another one?
I went through Tucker on this one. I still want a FiveseveN can, but this whole process sucks. I guess I should get that one started now as well.

On the upside, at least the process gives me plenty of time to get the barrel threaded. :D

Mike

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by Gunlawyer » 17 Aug 2012, 12:15

Had about 6 or 7 Form 4s and Form 1s arrive finally. They all took a couple weeks over, or a couple weeks under, 6 months. The 5320.20s are only taking a couple weeks though.

CT

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by jgreenberg01 » 28 Aug 2012, 05:18

This is a really interesting video. The second half is the ASA's (American Silencer Association) meeting with members of congress while the first half shows their tour of the NFA Branch. I took away 3 things from watching it:

1) It's easy to see why there is such a long backlog/wait times. The situation is really frustrating.

2) We've heard it before, but it seems that they really are working on eliminating the CLEO sign-off requirement.

3) If true, they are working on e-filing transfer forms that don't require fingerprints. It won't work for regular Form 1s or Form 4s, but NFA Trust transfers will be eligible (another reason to form a Trust, if this ever happens).

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by jgreenberg01 » 25 Sep 2012, 10:31

Quick update: I sent in a form 4 on 8-8-12, they cashed the check on 8-27-12 and it went pending in their database on 9-7-12.

According to the person I spoke with at NFA Branch, it is taking an average of 6 months from going pending until approval.
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57js
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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by 57js » 25 Sep 2012, 16:38

jgreenberg01 wrote:Quick update: I sent in a form 4 on 8-8-12, they cashed the check on 8-27-12 and it went pending in their database on 9-7-12.

According to the person I spoke with at NFA Branch, it is taking an average of 6 months from going pending until approval.
It should take less then 6 months now. 5 months seems to be the new norm as the examiners are really trying to speed things up. I had a form 1 get bounced back for an ATF mistake that went pending second week of May. I was told I should get the tax stamp next week. The examiner I talked with told me that my item that went pending the second week of June should begin processing this week or possibly next week.

Assuming no problems with your application, I wouldn't be surprised if you will get approved end of January or early February.

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by jmz5 » 28 Sep 2012, 04:06

Depending on the examiner you get, most have been taking 6 months, some 5, some 7 or 8.
كاف

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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by jgreenberg01 » 28 Sep 2012, 04:12

My gun store claims that they have one examiner who handles the majority of their for 4s. They are also claiming that this examiner is currently getting it done in 5 months. I suppose we'll see, but the others that I did through them in the past seemed to come through about 30 days faster than others at the time.
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Re: NFA Wait Times

Post by Brewerbob » 27 Nov 2012, 15:25

Form 4 wrote:I, _______________________________, have a reasonable necessity to
(Name of Transferee)
possess the machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short-barreled shotgun, or destructive device described on this application for the following reason(s) and my possession of the device or weapon would be consistent with public safety (18 U.S.C. 922(b) (4) and 27 CFR 478.98).

What are the reasons? Because I want one, damn it. But I'm guessing citing the 2nd Amendment isn't what they are looking for.

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