PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Discuss rifles chambered for the 5.7x28mm; P90, PS90, and AR57.
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PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 19 Mar 2012, 11:29

Ok kids I have the a prototype in my hand made from the tungsten material. They are heavier, this proto by almost a ounce.

The issue is cost. They will not be cheap due materiel, what it takes to machine this materiel and low production count. Cost will be around $120.00 to $130.00 each.


The PS90 was designed first as the P90 with a 10.5 inch barrel. It is a blow back carbine. When FNH stuck a 16.5 barrel on the P90, made it semi and called it the PS90 they did NOTHING to the back/bolt end. With the increase in barrel length it means the bullet is in the barrel longer but the bolt cycles like it still has a 10.5 barrel. FNH was being lazy and cheap by not doing anything with the back end. Because of this some PS90's even using loads well below cartridge max have issues with popping mags, miss feeds and other issues.

By increasing the weight of the reducer we are compensating for the timing change of the longer PS90 barrel.




I want to gauge interest in it before even taking pre-orders so I don't have a repeat of the 650 shell plate.

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Llagoud » 19 Mar 2012, 12:37

In. :thumb:

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Oldbindlestiff » 19 Mar 2012, 13:30

In.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Prepper » 19 Mar 2012, 17:05

Me three.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Esteves » 19 Mar 2012, 17:08

four!
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by LK45s » 19 Mar 2012, 18:52

I'm game.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by SHEEPDOG » 19 Mar 2012, 19:29

I'm in.

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Lobo » 20 Mar 2012, 00:11

me too! :D

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by ddouglas » 20 Mar 2012, 07:45

A little information is requested. I guess I understand that the added mass slows the bolt cycling after firing, but what is (are) the advantage(s) of this?

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 20 Mar 2012, 09:43

ddouglas wrote:A little information is requested. I guess I understand that the added mass slows the bolt cycling after firing, but what is (are) the advantage(s) of this?
The PS90 was designed first as the P90 with a 10.5 inch barrel. It is a blow back carbine. When FNH stuck a 16.5 barrel on the P90, made it semi and called it the PS90 they did NOTHING to the back/bolt end. With the increase in barrel length it means the bullet is in the barrel longer but the bolt cycles like it still has a 10.5 barrel. FNH was being lazy and cheap by not doing anything with the back end. Because of this some PS90's even using loads well below cartridge max have issues with popping mags, miss feeds and other issues.

By increasing the weight of the reducer we are compensating for the timing change of the longer PS90 barrel.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by ddouglas » 20 Mar 2012, 10:19

Ah ha! Thanks, Panzer. Put me down for an order.

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by ninthinning » 20 Mar 2012, 17:57

all in
God bless John Browning.

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by ninthinning » 20 Mar 2012, 17:57

I'll take two
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by saki302 » 23 Mar 2012, 01:40

I'd be in for one.

Add this on top of the upgraded springs and I think you'd have a nice insurance buffer with handloads :)

-Dave

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by starfury » 23 Mar 2012, 16:06

Great job Jay! Did you use HD17 grade material? That puts you at about 1oz increase based on calculations for a square unit - so you hit it spot on!

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 23 Mar 2012, 19:55

starfury wrote:Great job Jay! Did you use HD17 grade material? That puts you at about 1oz increase based on calculations for a square unit - so you hit it spot on!

Yes I did! Thank you for the testing.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by needforspeed » 02 Apr 2012, 15:40

I'm in for one.....

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by thegodfather » 13 Apr 2012, 06:40

I would like one. Thanks!

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Sweet Chuckie » 13 Apr 2012, 08:03

I also would like one, along with your zoot recoil springs for the PS90.

Just hold my hand and help me navigate the maze on how to pay for the goodies....... :o)

Thank you, Sweet Chuckie

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by NLVMike » 13 Apr 2012, 15:19

I'm in for one.

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 13 Apr 2012, 17:01

First run of 25 are being made now.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Wackamole » 14 Apr 2012, 04:05

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by PursuitSS » 14 Apr 2012, 07:54

Wackamole wrote:Does the bolt rate reducer help in any way with SBR'd PS90s?
I would also like to know this.

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by old fool » 14 Apr 2012, 19:12

Only if it can slow down your finger. :laugh:

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 14 Apr 2012, 21:03

Yes but the benefits are less since the bolt assembly was designed for the P90 first. One of the things you need to watch on the P90/SBR is the bolt cracking on the edge of the face. You need to make sure to change your recoil springs.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Wackamole » 16 Apr 2012, 11:39

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 16 Apr 2012, 12:59

Wackamole wrote:To the heavier recoil springs, correct?

Or factory springs. If you don't change the factory springs the 100% factory bolt will crack.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by PursuitSS » 16 Apr 2012, 18:35

panzermk2 wrote:
Wackamole wrote:To the heavier recoil springs, correct?

Or factory springs. If you don't change the factory springs the 100% factory bolt will crack.
How often do they need to be changed?

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 17 Apr 2012, 00:21

PursuitSS wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:
Wackamole wrote:To the heavier recoil springs, correct?

Or factory springs. If you don't change the factory springs the 100% factory bolt will crack.
How often do they need to be changed?
Now there is the rub. I can't give you the number. FNH does not give one. I have the OEM FNH PS90 Maintenance Manual and no where in it do they list a round count or a way to measure. Based purely on other springs 10k would be a good starting point.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Wackamole » 17 Apr 2012, 02:08

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Zhurdan » 17 Apr 2012, 06:09

panzermk2 wrote:
Wackamole wrote:To the heavier recoil springs, correct?

Or factory springs. If you don't change the factory springs the 100% factory bolt will crack.
Now you've got my curiosity up. Are you saying that an SBR'd PS90 with factory bolt and no modifications needs different springs to prevent cracking or am I reading you wrong?

I can also read what you said as "if you don't keep good/maintained springs in it, it may crack (weak springs). Is that due to bolt bounce as the springs get weaker?

I'd hate my investment to go to crap.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 17 Apr 2012, 11:29

OK I thought I made it pretty simple.

The bolt will crack on a P90/PS90 if you don't replace the recoil springs when they get worn out.

Exact details where not passed on to me. I was hoping to get pics but I did not.

I would suspect that since this is a blow back gun, worn out springs will not hold the case in the chamber long enough to allow pressures to drop.


Why you guys extrapolated that into "I'd hate my investment to go to crap." is beyond me. ALL firearms need their recoil springs changed at sometime or another and when you don't ANY firearm would be damaged buy this.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Zhurdan » 17 Apr 2012, 11:48

Sorry for asking a question. I just thought I would utilize your expertise rather than just "hope" I read it correctly.

My bad.

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Wackamole » 18 Apr 2012, 02:56

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 18 Apr 2012, 13:03

Wackamole wrote:If the issue is with the bolt retracting prematurely before the chamber pressure reduces to a safe level, it should be noted that, with a suppressor attached to an SBR’d PS90, the same conditions could exist do to backpressure from the suppressor. Based on this (assuming the previous statement is true), if one uses a suppressor on an SBR’d PS90, replacing the factory springs to the heavier springs, and possibly also adding a bolt rate reducer, might be prudent. I’m just sayin’……

Depending on the can this has been an issue in the past. Some cans do cause the magazine to pop loose and in some cases the receiver to pop out.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Wackamole » 19 Apr 2012, 03:32

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 19 Apr 2012, 08:59

Wackamole wrote:Hmmmmm...... Could the use of a suppressor on the Five Seven pistol also allow for the extraction of the spent shells before pressures have dropped to a safe level?

No shorter barrel.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Kinoons » 30 Apr 2012, 09:53

It appears I shall be needing one of these as well.

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 25 May 2012, 13:50

In stock just picked up from laser engraver will be up on the website next week.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Llagoud » 04 Jun 2012, 06:06

Nice. Tomorrow is 'theoretical payday'.
:laugh:
If my numbers look good I'll get my order in. :thumb:

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Buffman » 04 Jun 2012, 08:52

Is this going to help with us that have mag popping issues?

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 04 Jun 2012, 10:08

Buffman wrote:Is this going to help with us that have mag popping issues?

It should

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Buffman » 04 Jun 2012, 14:27

That engraving could use some work. We have a 20 watt laser at work :)

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 04 Jun 2012, 14:42

Buffman wrote:That engraving could use some work. We have a 20 watt laser at work :)

It's the rough surface. I could have had them smoother for double the price.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Esteves » 04 Jun 2012, 18:39

It's a long wait until shipping day...
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Esteves » 15 Jun 2012, 19:00

Mine arrived earlier this week. :)

In the interest of saving a buck, I went for the bundled EA P90/PS90 Extreme Duty Package

Installation was a breeze. made breezier by Jay's helpful videos:



I found two additional items handy:
1) A flashlight for investigating where TF one of the snap rings inevitably disappeared itself to.
2) A 6YO with small hands who could reach the snap ring in question when it was re-discovered.

It was a good projectlet for dad&dude. We can't wait to shoot it, but it will probably have to wait until we can hit the high country.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Llagoud » 19 Jun 2012, 13:20

I went for the bundled EA P90/PS90 Extreme Duty Package
:thumb: I just ordered the same.
There's no 6 year old around here though, maybe I'll put a tarp down before starting. :laugh:
Thanks for the tip!

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Wackamole » 23 Jun 2012, 03:41

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Esteves » 23 Jun 2012, 06:41

Good observation, Wackamole. :)
There's a good "how to" for all things springy, and it touches (one liner) on snap rings here: http://home.earthlink.net/~bazillion/types.html#snap" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by needforspeed » 04 Aug 2012, 10:11

Where's all the feedback from those of you who have purchased the BRR?

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 04 Aug 2012, 10:39

needforspeed wrote:Where's all the feedback from those of you who have purchased the BRR?
Spread around all over. But now that you have asked I am sure folks will come here and post feedback.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Oldbindlestiff » 04 Aug 2012, 11:23

Excellent product. Test fired with S4M and SS195LF. Normal function. No pressure signs. Buy one!
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Esteves » 05 Aug 2012, 07:07

For my part, I'm still trying to get out of Dodge and hit the high country.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by JCIS1 » 29 Jan 2015, 22:36

I would love to have enough of your ammo to shoot to have a problem where I needed this!
But I would still buy it hoping enough of the good ammo shows up to notice the difference.
Never had a problem with regular blue tip in any of my FN5.7s

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by Ppostma1 » 11 Feb 2015, 21:45

This looks like a great idea! If the weight is increased, the spring tension can also be increased to slow bolt rate. Just shim the spring up a 1/4" or so

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 12 Feb 2015, 01:14

Ppostma1 wrote:This looks like a great idea! If the weight is increased, the spring tension can also be increased to slow bolt rate. Just shim the spring up a 1/4" or so
I sell HD recoil springs also for the PS90

I recomend one or the other. When you combine both the bolt slams closed harder and faster. Sometimes too fast.
Over time I find that just the reducer is all you need.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by gr8ful » 04 Jul 2016, 11:14

I want one.

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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by panzermk2 » 04 Jul 2016, 12:49

Out of stock and they where a slow seller. I would try a set of our HD recoil and a HD magazine catch springs instead.

Adding the Mankave HD magazine catch we offer also would would help.
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Re: PS90 HD Bolt Rate Reducers.

Post by pbraswell70 » 05 May 2017, 14:13

Any more left friend? I'll take one if you do. Thanks,
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