PS90 vs AR15

[JoJo]

I recently switched to FsN for my hand guns and I am very happy with that decision. I now have two and LOTS of ammo. I have an AR15 with about 2m rounds so my next decision can be very expensive. If I had to bug out with my family we can carry lots of 5.7 but I am concerned with also trying to carry 223.
From a tactical standpoint, would buying a PS90 make sense? What, in your opinion, are the advantages and disadvantages of a PS90 compared to an AR15? :ponder:

I have made my list and it is going to be very interesting to see yours!

[MrSlippyFist]

Why not split the difference and get an AR57 upper?

PS90 is solid, I would recommend that. Or you could sell some of that 223 ammo and get the upper in 5,7x28

[JoJo]

Why not split the difference and get an AR57 upper?

PS90 is solid, I would recommend that. Or you could sell some of that 223 ammo and get the upper in 5,7x28

I considered the AR57 but I think it is too much of a compromise. I would save me money but.....

[jgreenberg01]

Why not split the difference and get an AR57 upper?

PS90 is solid, I would recommend that. Or you could sell some of that 223 ammo and get the upper in 5,7x28

Agreed. I own a FsN as well as an AR-15 and an AR-10 variant. When I decided to carry my FsN full time, I also decided it was time to get a PS90 but at the time I needed to not be spending that much money. The AR57 was the perfect solution: I could still use virtually all the AR-15 accessories that I already owned AND share my preferred caliber.

The pros as I saw them were:

The ammo is substantially lighter allowing you to carry more.
Standard magazine capacity 50 vs. 30.
Virtually non-existant recoil (and with the suppressor I added let's call it "no" recoil").
Faster follow-up shots due to the lower recoil.
I was able to build it for the same or less than an AR-15.

Cons:
Just one - the range is not as good as a 5.56/.223, but in a real life BG encounter at greater than typical SD distances... I hope I would have the presence of mind to remove myself from the situation rather than get into a fire fight. Bearing that in mind, I think it overcomes the one drawback I could think of - 150m effective range of the AR57 is more than enough.

Some people think that ammo availablity would be an issue in a so-called SHTF or Zombie Apocalypse scenario. My reply to that is to simply stay stocked up on whatever your caliber-of-choice is. It's not like 5.7x28 is hard to find right now.

Having said all that though... I still so want a PS90! :laugh:

[JoJo]

Why not split the difference and get an AR57 upper?

PS90 is solid, I would recommend that. Or you could sell some of that 223 ammo and get the upper in 5,7x28

Agreed. I own a FsN as well as an AR-15 and an AR-10 variant. When I decided to carry my FsN full time, I also decided it was time to get a PS90 but at the time I needed to not be spending that much money. The AR57 was the perfect solution: I could still use virtually all the AR-15 accessories that I already owned AND share my preferred caliber.

The pros as I saw them were:

The ammo is substantially lighter allowing you to carry more.
Standard magazine capacity 50 vs. 30.
Virtually non-existant recoil (and with the suppressor I added let's call it "no" recoil").
Faster follow-up shots due to the lower recoil.
I was able to build it for the same or less than an AR-15.

Cons:
Just one - the range is not as good as a 5.56/.223, but in a real life BG encounter at greater than typical SD distances... I hope I would have the presence of mind to remove myself from the situation rather than get into a fire fight. Bearing that in mind, I think it overcomes the one drawback I could think of - 150m effective range of the AR57 is more than enough.

Some people think that ammo availablity would be an issue in a so-called SHTF or Zombie Apocalypse scenario. My reply to that is to simply stay stocked up on whatever your caliber-of-choice is. It's not like 5.7x28 is hard to find right now.

Having said all that though... I still so want a PS90! :laugh:

Thanks for your input. I have tried to envision different scenarios but without experience they have no credence. I think a Irag/Afganistan vet could give some valid insight. In the real world, deer hunters could probably rule.

[MrSlippyFist]

If you had to bug out with your family (which is the scenario you proposed in the first post), are you going to bank on those with experience hunting deer, or those with experience hunting two-legged targets who mean you and your family harm?

[toyslr]

I look at potential situations this way! How many people or possible supply points use 5.7x28? In the time of need are you going to be able to find ammo for resupply? In an all out event I would tend to stick to NATO or military calibers. 5.56/.308/9m.m./.45

[MrSlippyFist]

Thats why my only AR is 7.62x39

[JoJo]

If you had to bug out with your family (which is the scenario you proposed in the first post), are you going to bank on those with experience hunting deer, or those with experience hunting two-legged targets who mean you and your family harm?

I certainly would prefer a skilled soldier as a companion but we will be outnumbered by deer hunters with high powered rifles. Ideally, I would like to fortify my home but I read that one should be mobile. Best plan?

Who do YOU think we will be defending against?

Boy, we got off topic.

[MrSlippyFist]

Of course it all comes down to demographics. Far more illiterate liberal parasites than deer hunters in these parts so I have different scenarios to deal with and plan accordingly. I'm not running unless I have to. I feel it is ideal to have one load-out that will work for all of the likely scenarios.

[JoJo]

I look at potential situations this way! How many people or possible supply points use 5.7x28? In the time of need are you going to be able to find ammo for resupply? In an all out event I would tend to stick to NATO or military calibers. 5.56/.308/9m.m./.45

Good point. What do you think is a reasonable quantity of rounds? I was surprised at the weight of 2000 5.7s but it could be easily carried by two people with vests. In the case of a civil war, I doubt that ANY ammo would be available.

Sad thing is that my friends think I am going overboard and they won't consider stocking up.

[MrSlippyFist]

Reasonable quantity of rounds:

When mobile, as many as you can carry (in vehicle and on person) with appropriate levels of fuel and water.
When stationary, as many as you can store while paying attention to fuel for your family and home. Don't count on being able to get out and hold up your neighbors. If anything you need to be on better terms with those around you in any scenario.

[jgreenberg01]

I look at potential situations this way! How many people or possible supply points use 5.7x28? In the time of need are you going to be able to find ammo for resupply? In an all out event I would tend to stick to NATO or military calibers. 5.56/.308/9m.m./.45

Good point. What do you think is a reasonable quantity of rounds? I was surprised at the weight of 2000 5.7s but it could be easily carried by two people with vests. In the case of a civil war, I doubt that ANY ammo would be available.

Sad thing is that my friends think I am going overboard and they won't consider stocking up.

Think about it: in reality, how many rounds do you think you would actually fire off in a real situation? I suggest that if you have to go through 2k rounds, you're in the wrong place and will likely not survive anyway. What we really need is likely far less than that which is why I prefer 5.7x28 - they are lighter and you can carry more.

Honestly though, I have have well over 2k rounds of 5.56 and 5.7x28 and I simply don't see a likely scenario, even in my suburban world, of ever needing that many rounds.

I'm still buying more for some reason though

[JoJo]

"Cons:
Just one - the range is not as good as a 5.56/.223, but in a real life BG encounter at greater than typical SD distances... I hope I would have the presence of mind to remove myself from the situation rather than get into a fire fight. Bearing that in mind, I think it overcomes the one drawback I could think of - 150m effective range of the AR57 is more than enough."

I think your point is very astute.

New question: If your firefight is at a distance of 100 yards, would the 5.7x28 be anywhere near as effective as a 5.56 round? If I have the opportunity to run, should I be concerned with distances greater than 100 yards?

[panzermk2]

I will be standing and fighting so ammo is not an issue for me.

[SeaHawkDriver-B]

If you're not prepared to both bug IN and bug OUT, then you're not prepared. To the people who think they're going to fight-out every situation from ther home/fortress or "hortress", then you're limiting yourself to a very narrow number of potential situations. What are you going to do during a major radiaion leak/dirty bomb, an airborne pandemic, or any other situation which makes your hortress uninhabitable, unable to grow food, or even breathe the air?

This is a very popular forum for people sayign they're going to switch up to the 5.7x28 for Bug-out carry...the main reasons, low recoil and low weight.

My only retort is that if things are SO BAD, that you are forced to leave your home in search of.... whatever, then the 5.7 is the LAST round I'd want to depend on for the rest of my life. If you dont have ammo for your weapon, you might as well use it as a stick to beat away the zombie squirrels. Most common military round in the western world is 5.56. Every police department and military unit in the entire country is well stocked with it. I'd venture to say less than 5% of police departments carry the 5.7x28, and less than 1% of the military has it. Not only that, the AR-series rifles are so popular in this country, most gun households have 5.56 as well.

If you want 5.7 so you can pack a few hundred more rounds on your person while trecking a couple of miles until you're out of Schlitz, go for it, you do so at your own peril. I'm sticking with 5.56. I'm also going to have a 9mm and a .22lr pistol on me.

[toyslr]

Locking down would better if your in an area of little of no traffic (vehicle or pedestrian) I would lock down the house and live off of what I have until it becomes an issue.
Make nightly scouting trips to find essentials, be it stores, houses of people who left. Once there is a threat or increase in traffic it would be time to go and then it becomes
what you can pack and carry in a vehilce and on your person. I keep 10 (30 round) mags of 5.56 pre-loaded for me and my girl each along with 4 pistol mags. I have three
1,000 round ammo boxes along with one .45 and .308. Figuring this is enough to load out a car and then transfer to mags as needed. I also keep two betas loaded with AP 5.56
just in case the going gets tough! There are enough Wally Worlds and out of the way gun shops to hit up or ransack to find ammo, if not then your start thinking small national guard
armories or ammo supply places (sorry Panser !just kidding!!) but it does make you have to consider being a target. I am fearful of that because of my FFL and the address being plastered all over the internet.

[JoJo]

Locking down would better if your in an area of little of no traffic (vehicle or pedestrian) I would lock down the house and live off of what I have until it becomes an issue.
Make nightly scouting trips to find essentials, be it stores, houses of people who left. Once there is a threat or increase in traffic it would be time to go and then it becomes
what you can pack and carry in a vehilce and on your person. I keep 10 (30 round) mags of 5.56 pre-loaded for me and my girl each along with 4 pistol mags. I have three
1,000 round ammo boxes along with one .45 and .308. Figuring this is enough to load out a car and then transfer to mags as needed. I also keep two betas loaded with AP 5.56
just in case the going gets tough! There are enough Wally Worlds and out of the way gun shops to hit up or ransack to find ammo, if not then your start thinking small national guard
armories or ammo supply places (sorry Panser !just kidding!!) but it does make you have to consider being a target. I am fearful of that because of my FFL and the address being plastered all over the internet.

Suddenly, I feel very insecure. I live in a subdivision in a large metropolitan City (Atlanta).

[MrSlippyFist]

Suddenly, I feel very insecure. I live in a subdivision in a large metropolitan City (Atlanta).

Ouch. You need to buy yourself some acreage up in Whitestone and commute.

[SeaHawkDriver-B]

In SHTF, "Wally worlds" and any other useful store will be ransacked and BARE inside of 48 hours, there will be no scouting trips worth the risk. Any "mom and pop" gun store or place that sells ammunition will be heavily guarded or completely cleared, offensive and overt operations are OUT OF THE QUESTION, they do nothing but attract attention and put you and your party at substantial risk. Any single bullet wound in SHTF is more than likely fatal if infection sets in.

Police, military, and local militias, street gangs, etc.. will be acting SOLELY in their own interest and can no be trusted.

Armed scavenging at night and hopping over to a local store to pick up the 10 boxes of ammo they had on their shef a month ago is pure fiction.

If you want more ammo you're probably going to have to pick it off a dead body, and maybe have to kill the guy in the process.

[JoJo]

As a former executive in a large company, I had to make decisions. I had experience in my field so I think I made VALID decisions. Now I must make decisions that could be the most important of my life and I feel completely incompetent!
It would seem that there is no magic panacea to achieve all my self defense objectives for two adults.

Based on the information that this forum has contributed to date I will have:
Two FsNs with 2000 rounds total, each fitted with a Veridian laser
One AR15 with 1000 rounds and fitted with a Leupold Mark 4 1-3x14mm CQ/T scope
One Remington tactical 870 pump with 48 rounds
Two vests for ammo and Fsns

My least confident decision is to stay with the AR instead of buying a PS90.

I welcome your critique!

[Rapier1772]

I wouldn't say there is anything wrong with your decision. There are pluses to having an AR - part availability, accessories, ammo availability... Kinda like SeaHawk was saying

I own both & I prefer the PS90 - except that it tugs at my beard when I shoot it :laugh:

[Wollychop]

If you're not prepared to both bug IN and bug OUT, then you're not prepared. To the people who think they're going to fight-out every situation from ther home/fortress or "hortress", then you're limiting yourself to a very narrow number of potential situations. What are you going to do during a major radiaion leak/dirty bomb, an airborne pandemic, or any other situation which makes your hortress uninhabitable, unable to grow food, or even breathe the air?

This is a very popular forum for people sayign they're going to switch up to the 5.7x28 for Bug-out carry...the main reasons, low recoil and low weight.

My only retort is that if things are SO BAD, that you are forced to leave your home in search of.... whatever, then the 5.7 is the LAST round I'd want to depend on for the rest of my life. If you dont have ammo for your weapon, you might as well use it as a stick to beat away the zombie squirrels. Most common military round in the western world is 5.56. Every police department and military unit in the entire country is well stocked with it. I'd venture to say less than 5% of police departments carry the 5.7x28, and less than 1% of the military has it. Not only that, the AR-series rifles are so popular in this country, most gun households have 5.56 as well.

If you want 5.7 so you can pack a few hundred more rounds on your person while trecking a couple of miles until you're out of Schlitz, go for it, you do so at your own peril. I'm sticking with 5.56. I'm also going to have a 9mm and a .22lr pistol on me.

Well, in this hypothetical end-of-the-world, as you say, the 5.56 and platforms are very common. Like he says in "We Were Soldiers", there will be plenty lying around.

In contrast, my PS90 SBR fits neatly in my backback with quite a few magazines, and my wife is comfortable shooting it. I don't doubt that you could "easily" aquire an AR-15 after the fact.

Two ways of looking at it, I guess. I've got a Sig 556 that might be my first choice in an actual "survival" situation... But, if in this world we are honestly talking about the possibility of expending thousands of rounds while on the move (for whatever reason: robots, aliens, zombies, zombie squirrels) not too many people would live very long, anyway. If there's that much shooting going on, there's plenty of stuff lying around :laugh:

[eddie]

....... the PS90 - except that it tugs at my beard when I shoot it :laugh:

yup! gets me every time.

[f3rr37]

As a former executive in a large company, I had to make decisions. I had experience in my field so I think I made VALID decisions. Now I must make decisions that could be the most important of my life and I feel completely incompetent!
It would seem that there is no magic panacea to achieve all my self defense objectives for two adults.

Based on the information that this forum has contributed to date I will have:
Two FsNs with 2000 rounds total, each fitted with a Veridian laser
One AR15 with 1000 rounds and fitted with a Leupold Mark 4 1-3x14mm CQ/T scope
One Remington tactical 870 pump with 48 rounds
Two vests for ammo and Fsns

My least confident decision is to stay with the AR instead of buying a PS90.

I welcome your critique!

Don't forget batteries for that laser.

[mel023]

I'm not a vet but I've done quite a bit of sport shooting and even some hunting in my life. Right now I work part-time for a gunsmith so I've been exposed to a lot of firearms, their users and those users biases. I like the 5.7 for it's lack of recoil and it's terminal ballistics within it's intended purpose which I define as fairly close range, under 100yds/meters. Beyond that I go for something a bit heavier. That's where the AR platform really shows it's flexibility. It'll shoot anything from .22LR, to 9mm, to 5.56, 6.8SPC, 7.62X39 and even the 5.7 with right upper. And that's not counting the really niche stuff like the .458 SOCOM, the .450 Bushmaster or the .50 Beowulf. About the only caliber I know of that you'd need a specific lower receiver for is the .308/7.62x51. The limiting factor becomes how much of each round you can pack or carry. The determing factor for that is what are the perceived threats are in your immediate area. Do you only need to worry about zombified squirrels? Then go for the .22LR. If you have bigger threats then a bigger response is indicated such as the 6.8 or the 7.62x39. There's no point in worrying about the situation in an area you are trying to get to for reasons of increased safety or availability of food if you have no communication with anybody in that area. You just have to be as ready as you can be to deal with what ever comes up. If I had to choose one plaform, I'd go with the AR and a couple of different uppers probably the 5.56 because as SeaHawk said, you can find it almost anywhere and either the 6.8 or 7.62x39 with a slight edge to the 7.62 for the same reason as the 5.56, you can find it almost anywhere. As for me, I've got about 2,000 rounds of 5.7 and between 1,000 and 2,000 rounds each of .308, 7.62x39 and 6.8SPC. One thought that I try to keep in mind is that if worse comes to worse, having lots of ammo means you can possibly trade some of it for food or other necessities. Happy zombie hunting.

[rambam]

Hi there,
What are the pros and cons between the ps90 and the 12 inch ar57 as far as ergonomics, handling the mags, trigger, or other things that you've noticed. Thanks

[blueorison]

Rambam, you might want to create a separate thread for this question.

The AR57 will always have better trigger options available and if you're used to the AR ergonomics you'd prefer the AR57.

[Rapier1772]

I moved the post to this thread as it was about the two platforms & not a brass catcher.

[JumpedtheShark]

These threads come up a lot on different forums. Quite often someone does point out that one is not likely to just "find" ammo as some envision. Just because something is somewhat common... Police/Military/Your neighbor is not likely to let you have/buy any if things are that bad.

I'd just pick a platform you like, and get all your spare parts and ammo for whatever it is on your own. NOW.