PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Discuss rifles chambered for the 5.7x28mm; P90, PS90, and AR57.
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starfury
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by starfury » 10 Jul 2011, 16:30

Here is my PS90 (pictures looking forward and reward on the latch hole). I have about 2000+ rds through it. I haven't had any "pop up" issues with any rounds I have fire through it including some of my hotter reloads.

Regarding the bounce weight on the bolt, when I was talking to ninthining regarding this about a year ago I did some spreadsheet calculations with his bounce weight (1.66oz) and it appeared to me that the stock bounce weight is made of an ~ 17 gm/cc machinable tungsten (or heavy alloy) material. Going to the square design will add about 1oz at the same density. Heavier alloys are available up to about 18.5 gm/cc (http://www.mi-techmetals.com/hd-typical.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).


As viewed to the rear:
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As viewed to the front:
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by Buffman » 10 Jul 2011, 19:02

Jay what materials have you tried so far?

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 10 Jul 2011, 20:33

starfury wrote:Here is my PS90 (pictures looking forward and reward on the latch hole). I have about 2000+ rds through it. I haven't had any "pop up" issues with any rounds I have fire through it including some of my hotter reloads.

Regarding the bounce weight on the bolt, when I was talking to ninthining regarding this about a year ago I did some spreadsheet calculations with his bounce weight (1.66oz) and it appeared to me that the stock bounce weight is made of an ~ 17 gm/cc machinable tungsten (or heavy alloy) material. Going to the square design will add about 1oz at the same density. Heavier alloys are available up to about 18.5 gm/cc (http://www.mi-techmetals.com/hd-typical.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).


As viewed to the rear:
Image

As viewed to the front:
Image

Well we know for a fact it is Magnetic Stainless Steel. So what out there would be denser?
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 10 Jul 2011, 20:35

Buffman wrote:Jay what materials have you tried so far?

High grade SS. If I have to get the same type of magnetic stainless the this reducer will be really expensive.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by Buffman » 10 Jul 2011, 21:24

Jay do you need sqaure stock or can you can you use round stock? Sending you a PM

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by ninthinning » 11 Jul 2011, 04:01

I sure hope you can solve the popping mag problem.
9th
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 11 Jul 2011, 10:04

Well I have talked to some folkes. I have a source for the 17-4 magnetic SS and our next batch of reducers will be made of it.

Eric you will be one of the first to get a prototype. Heck I will send you one of the failed SS ones also just to have.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by Grantness » 11 Jul 2011, 12:02

oooo free paper weights! :lmao: J/K all of this stuff is fascinating to me, and Im jealous I can't afford a PS90 yet :wall: .

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by starfury » 11 Jul 2011, 20:45

I just pulled my PS90 stock bounce weight and weighed it at 47.2 gms. From the measurements I just took on it (OD= 14.2mm, ID=8.13mm L= 26.04mm) it comes out to 2.78 cc. The stock density is then 47.2/2.78 (gm/cc) = 16.97 gm/cc. This is ~2x the density of stainless steel and very close to the machinable tungsten alloy HD17 (also slightly magnetic). 17-4 PH SS is only ~7.8 gm/cc.

I will have to talk to some of my materials folks but even pure tungsten (which is way too brittle and hard to work with) is at the 18.5 gm/cc or so – not buying much.

What are the external dimensions of your square bounce weight? With that we can figure out what is would weight if using HD17 or maybe HD18 material.

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 11 Jul 2011, 22:43

Well it's stainless and magnetic. I did not do the mass calculations though.

My current rate reducer is .557x1.185 and came out to .03 ounces lighter then the factory reducer. I wonder if what looks like a machined lip inside the reducer is really an insert. Say a tungsten tube inside the 17-4? The 17-4 shell would protect the tungsten.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 11 Jul 2011, 22:59

I have a 60x non refracting micro scope and it's hard to tell. It looks like there could be a seam there. The metal is porous, it has turn marks but they look more like they where ground.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by starfury » 12 Jul 2011, 18:30

I did a quick calculation assuming your reducer dimensions of 0.557”x0.557”x1.185” with a hole down the center that I assume is a 0.32” diameter. If I assume ~8gm/cc for the stainless steel it comes to 1.26 oz about 0.4oz lighter than the factory 1.66oz bounce weight so that is in fairly good agreement with your numbers. Using your numbers, if you made it from HD17 it would weight 2.67oz an increase of 1oz, using HD18 would push the weight up to 2.83oz.

I didn’t look close enough at the surface of the reducer or the transition on the inside (it was too late and I have now put the thing back together) but you might be onto something there… especially it looks more like it is ground that would be a refractory metal like Tungsten or one of its machinables alloys. I have seen many times were they have cladded pure tungsten parts at work but usually using something like a plasma spray prior to a HIPING cycle (we are doing that on CERMET based fuel elements for NTP engines) then centerless grind them down.

Could you take a small magnet and put it on the inside and see how magnetic it is… there is only a few %Fe in the tungsten alloy so it will be much weaker - that might tell you something. Honestly, I believe the HD17/18 alloys are tough enough to handle the abuse of the bounce weight application without any cladding.

Also can you take some pictures of the view through your 60x of the outside clad, the "seam" area, and if you can see any of the ID area.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 12 Jul 2011, 22:20

I will try to take a pic. The reducer is lightly magnetized now. Most likely from being passed through one of my strong shop magnets. Using a floating steel needle there is no discernible difference in the magnetic pull on the outside and inside of the reducer.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 28 Sep 2011, 11:19

Update, well the new rate reducer is an abject failure.

They aren't heavy enough. I am going to have to order a rate reducer form FNH so I can have it cut lengthwise to figure out what combination of metals FNH is using for them. This will be awhile though since these two sets have cost me almost 3 grand with absolutely no return on investment. I believe they are tungsten cored SS and the only way to verify is be destruction.

Next time you wonder why I or other companies charge 10 dollars for a 1 dollar piece of plastic it's best to keep this in mind and the cost of R&D


FYI I promised some of these if they worked to some member's. Since they don't I am sending out the HD recoil and mag catch springs to them.


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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by f3rr37 » 28 Sep 2011, 18:23

If it helps any... they look nice. :)

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 28 Sep 2011, 20:20

Expensive paperweights.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by f3rr37 » 28 Sep 2011, 20:33

If they weigh the same or even slightly more than the factory ones you could have the EA logo engraved and sell them as just replacement's or even novelty paper weights. That way you don't have product taking up space and your recoup some of the R&D costs.

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 28 Sep 2011, 20:48

1.50 each to be laser engraved. At this point with the legal bills piling up they are unlabeled paper weights.

Although I could sell them to full auto guys who want a higher rate of fire.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by SoCal Gunner » 30 Sep 2011, 09:34

Engrave one, sell it to me and I'll buy another raffle ticket!

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 30 Sep 2011, 11:24

SoCal Gunner wrote:Engrave one, sell it to me and I'll buy another raffle ticket!

We are about to send out case gauges to be laser engraved. I will send out about 10 of the weights and have them done.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by starfury » 23 Dec 2011, 14:02

I was finally able to confirm today that the PS90 rate reducer is made of machinable Tungsten HD17 (at 17gm/cc). I took the reducer out of my PS-90 and tested it on a Bruker XRF spectrometer (http://www.bruker-axs.com/handheldx-ray ... metry.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) at the office and sure enough the spectrum shows 90% Tungsten, ~7%Nickle and ~3% Iron, so it is slightly magnetic (no copper in the alloy). Also, there is no stainless steel clad – no spectrum ratios for the various types of stainless.

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by ddouglas » 23 Dec 2011, 16:30

What is a "rate reducer"?

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 24 Dec 2011, 00:55

starfury wrote:I was finally able to confirm today that the PS90 rate reducer is made of machinable Tungsten HD17 (at 17gm/cc). I took the reducer out of my PS-90 and tested it on a Bruker XRF spectrometer (http://www.bruker-axs.com/handheldx-ray ... metry.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) at the office and sure enough the spectrum shows 90% Tungsten, ~7%Nickle and ~3% Iron, so it is slightly magnetic (no copper in the alloy). Also, there is no stainless steel clad – no spectrum ratios for the various types of stainless.
Nice I already have the cad file for a heavier reducer. It will be just a matter of getting some of the Tungsten HD17 to my machine shop.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by SoCal Gunner » 24 Dec 2011, 05:54

panzermk2 wrote:
SoCal Gunner wrote:Engrave one, sell it to me and I'll buy another raffle ticket!

We are about to send out case gauges to be laser engraved. I will send out about 10 of the weights and have them done.
:?:

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by starfury » 24 Dec 2011, 09:38

When you are looking, there are also machinable grades HD17.5, 18 and 18.5 which are heavier (1.5gm/cc for the HD18.5). - so by going with your new square design and a heavier alloy you can increase the weight by over an ounce.

http://www.mi-techmetals.com/hd-typical.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by ddouglas » 24 Dec 2011, 09:45

I ask again: what is a "rate reducer"?

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by starfury » 24 Dec 2011, 09:50

It’s the cylindrical weight in the slot on the side of the bolt. By making it heavier (increasing the inertial mass of the bolt) it cycles slower. This can help for hotter loads allowing the bolt to stay in battery for slightly longer (letting pressure drop off) and reduce the magazine popping issues some are having.

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by ddouglas » 24 Dec 2011, 12:05

Ah ha! Thank you for the information.

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 24 Dec 2011, 14:18

ddouglas wrote:Ah ha! Thank you for the information.
In the FA P90 it sets the FA firing rate.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 24 Dec 2011, 14:20

starfury wrote:When you are looking, there are also machinable grades HD17.5, 18 and 18.5 which are heavier (1.5gm/cc for the HD18.5). - so by going with your new square design and a heavier alloy you can increase the weight by over an ounce.

http://www.mi-techmetals.com/hd-typical.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It may be awhile though. This is our very slow session, yearly INS payment will be due and all the money I flushed having the prototypes made really put a dent in my R&D budget.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 04 Jan 2012, 18:47

The first round of testing of a repair to the shaved off/mold issue where the receiver retention button sits have been completed.

As noted at the beginning of this thread some PS90's have shaved off polymer here on the foreword section of the opening making it easier for the receiver to pop out during firing and sometimes when the bolt slams foreword alone.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by Cyberfly » 05 Jan 2012, 06:07

I'm curious how you repair damaged polymer? I doubt that a two part resin would hold with repeated use, especially such a small area that gets repeatedly abused like this one. Or are you looking at another way to correct the problem other than repairing the polymer?
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 05 Jan 2012, 15:32

Trying an epoxy resin. The problem is the polymer used was from the outset designed to be solvent resistant. Most epoxies are un able to get a bight into the polymer.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by Cyberfly » 06 Jan 2012, 06:43

That's sort of what I was thinking. Even if you could rough it up to give it more of a surface area to bite onto, it still would have trouble holding simply bacause of the wear and tear that this particular area is subject to.
Good luck with it Jay, and keep us updated. Curious minds want to know...
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 06 Jan 2012, 07:19

Might look into a stronger spring for the take down button.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by rcpd34 » 04 Jul 2012, 10:31

Subscribed with interest.

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by PursuitSS » 20 Jul 2013, 07:20

I ran across this on the "other" Forum:

http://fnforum.net/forums/f27/ps90-stock-46394.html

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 20 Jul 2013, 12:49

As you can see old news here. FNH supposedly changed their manufacturing process. I was told the reason this happens was related to how the workers remove the stock halves from the form weakening that area. I tried placing a metal clip in the much like our mag lip protectors but there is not enough clearance to allow for metal thick enough with withstand operation. The thickest clips I could fit in there would still shear in less the 20 rounds.


What needs to bee done is that seem should be moved off center and a stainless steel block molded into the stock.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by PursuitSS » 20 Jul 2013, 13:10

panzermk2 wrote:As you can see old news here. FNH supposedly changed their manufacturing process. I was told the reason this happens was related to how the workers remove the stock halves from the form weakening that area. I tried placing a metal clip in the much like our mag lip protectors but there is not enough clearance to allow for metal thick enough with withstand operation. The thickest clips I could fit in there would still shear in less the 20 rounds.


What needs to bee done is that seem should be moved off center and a stainless steel block molded into the stock.
My .02, if someone (Elite) :D would offer a stronger takedown spring, I don't see how this damage could occur.

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 20 Jul 2013, 21:54

PursuitSS wrote:
panzermk2 wrote:As you can see old news here. FNH supposedly changed their manufacturing process. I was told the reason this happens was related to how the workers remove the stock halves from the form weakening that area. I tried placing a metal clip in the much like our mag lip protectors but there is not enough clearance to allow for metal thick enough with withstand operation. The thickest clips I could fit in there would still shear in less the 20 rounds.


What needs to bee done is that seem should be moved off center and a stainless steel block molded into the stock.
My .02, if someone (Elite) :D would offer a stronger takedown spring, I don't see how this damage could occur.

Tried it and it still does. Not enough room in there for a spring strong enough to make a difference. I have another fix that can be applied to bad stocks but have not had enough time to throughly test it.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by Buffman » 20 Jul 2013, 23:10

yeah that's TMH's stock. He stated that happened after firing some of the EA ammo I had sent him. Mine has not had that happen, but mine pops the mag up on most EA's stuff except S4M and T6

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 21 Jul 2013, 09:35

Buffman wrote:yeah that's TMH's stock. He stated that happened after firing some of the EA ammo I had sent him. Mine has not had that happen, but mine pops the mag up on most EA's stuff except S4M and T6

They really needed to make the P90/PS90 a delayed blow back. Besides a stock fix I have messed with that but like other things I just run out of time in a day.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP! (JB WELD epoxy)

Post by Litehiker » 30 Sep 2013, 19:56

How about renewing the forward edge of the reciever lock hole with JB WELD epoxy?

That stuff is actually more wear resistant than the the PS 90 polymer stock.

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP! (JB WELD epoxy)

Post by panzermk2 » 01 Oct 2013, 09:17

Litehiker wrote:How about renewing the forward edge of the reciever lock hole with JB WELD epoxy?

That stuff is actually more wear resistant than the the PS 90 polymer stock.

Crumbles after first shot tried that years ago.

Clip like the ones used on the old style magazine lips can't be made thick enough to not break, not enough clearance between stock and receiver.

I am testing a fix by just cutting the section out and replacing it with an aluminum insert. Securing it has been the issue.
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by techspec » 31 Mar 2014, 22:47

Was looking at my ladies PS90 and realized something. Her Duracoat in that region is holding up against the punishment that section takes pretty well. It's not even removed the finish yet. If it ever does, I'll just hit it with another coating. Seems that by cleaning the poly stock with the Duracoat degreaser, it allowed the duracoat to bond pretty well. Makes for a pretty good extra layer of protection. I was leaving my PS90 black, but maybe I'll put a coating of midnight black on mine to give it a lil extra protection too.

Jason

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by Litehiker » 25 May 2015, 16:54

Would it not be much simpler (and less costly) to increase the spring rate on the magazine catch?

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by Buffman » 25 May 2015, 17:52

Litehiker wrote:Would it not be much simpler (and less costly) to increase the spring rate on the magazine catch?
Yes, Jay offers a tougher mag release spring.

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by panzermk2 » 25 May 2015, 22:52

http://www.eliteammunition.net/p90ps90/ ... pring.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jay Wolf
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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by rusTORK » 07 Dec 2015, 14:10

Hello everyone.

I am new on this forum and i am looking for help.

I want to make for airsoft gas blowback version of P90 TR (made by manufacturer called WE) plastic sticker with FN marking. Your may see it on left side of body, it's saying: "Fabrique Nationale Herstal BELGIUM". Somehow WE didn't made it and airsoft version don't have markings at all. It's look fine overall, it's still P90, but this kind of small details make it more real and cool.

What i have got so far:

1. Exact marking text (Fabrique Nationale Herstal BELGIUM);
2. Size of niche on airsoft P90 TR for marking;
3. Exact font used for marking on P90\PS90;

I am looking for:

1. Scan (or high resolution photo) from top of a marking;
2. Size of niche on PS90 (just to compare airsoft P90 TR and PS90).

Scan is ideal for marking. It will give me exact coordinates of each letter and with with high resolution plus exact font i may do it clean and easy.

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Re: PS90 Owners I Need Your HELP!

Post by rusTORK » 04 Feb 2016, 13:31

I still looking for help with my problem. Anyone?

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